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He basically said that there are things that people find attractive. For the most part, men find skinny women more attractive than fat women. Agreed? For the most part, men find clear skin more attractive than bumpy, acne covered skin. Agreed? For the most part, men find hourglass figures more attractive than V-shaped torsos. Agreed? So if a fat, frumpy girl with dissheveled hair and acne asked you how to get a boyfriend, would there be something wrong with telling her to lose some pounds, get some Proactiv, and improve her wardrobe?
I'll agree with you here in order to move VV.
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"Game" is the same thing as a woman improving her physical appearance. You may find this hard to grasp because men are such visual creatures; we pretty much know whether we want to get to know (or sleep with) a girl based on a 1 second glance. Well, girls aren't like that. They judge us on a number of things, including our car, job, looks, money, status, education, and certain masculine dominant behaviors. PUAs focus on the latter and basically try to teach men how to display these behaviors that trigger women's attraction. What's wrong with that?
The advice one would give to the kind of girl you described is not equivalent to advising the average Joe to get a better car. Apples to apples, the male equivalent of an overweight, fashion-challenged girl with skin problems is an overweight, fashion-challenged guy with skin problems.
That's neither here nor there. PUA's, from what I have read from you & Nutz's posts, focus on one thing - manipulation. Your game is to meet the "apparent wants" of whichever girl you've got your sights on - just to GET the girl. That says only one thing to me. That depending on the girl you've got your sights on, you will change your behavior and lie and pretend. Bottom line, you aren't presenting the real you and your intentions towards the girl are insincere. That is just wrong, IMO.
The advice one would give to the kind of girl you described is not equivalent to advising the average Joe to get a better car. Apples to apples, the male equivalent of an overweight, fashion-challenged girl with skin problems is an overweight, fashion-challenged guy with skin problems.
No...the male equivalent of an overweight, fashion-challenged girl with skin problems is a timid, socially inept loser. A man's physical appearance is not nearly as important to his success with the opposite sex as a woman's is to hers. That's why Jay-Z has very attractive women falling heads over heels for him and Oprah Winfrey does not have very attractive men falling heads over heels for her.
Attractive, isn't he?
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Originally Posted by robee70
That's neither here nor there. PUA's, from what I have read from you & Nutz's posts, focus on one thing - manipulation. Your game is to meet the "apparent wants" of whichever girl you've got your sights on - just to GET the girl. That says only one thing to me. That depending on the girl you've got your sights on, you will change your behavior and lie and pretend. Bottom line, you aren't presenting the real you and your intentions towards the girl are insincere. That is just wrong, IMO.
Don't most men approach pretty girls "just to get the girl?" I mean, do you approach girls "not to get the girl?" What type of sense does that make? And who said anything about lying? And we pretend all the time whether you like it or not. Do you think Beyonce looks that way when she wakes up in the morning? Is she pretending by wearing makeup and a push up bra?
No...the male equivalent of an overweight, fashion-challenged girl with skin problems is a timid, socially inept loser. A man's physical appearance is not nearly as important to his success with the opposite sex as a woman's is to hers. That's why Jay-Z has very attractive women falling heads over heels for him and Oprah Winfrey does not have very attractive men falling heads over heels for her.
Attractive, isn't he?
I disagree. Great comparison by the way a 40 year old man to a 56 year old woman. I bet though if Oprah chose to use her money and status, llike you recommend men do, she'd have just as many men falling all over her. The point is none of these people are sincere.
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Don't most men approach pretty girls "just to get the girl?" I mean, do you approach girls "not to get the girl?" What type of sense does that make? And who said anything about lying? And we pretend all the time whether you like it or not. Do you think Beyonce looks that way when she wakes up in the morning? Is she pretending by wearing makeup and a push up bra?
1) There's a difference in "get for the sake of seeing if you can establish a relationship" and "get for the sake of getting".
2) I don't approach & get girls. I'm a married woman.
3) Maybe it's just me, but I don't agree with your comparisons. Wearing makeup, push-up bras, etc to me are equivalent to a well-groomed man man wearing boots with a heel.
4) Why do I think it's based on lies? Again, because I haven't heard of PUA/dating coaches giving scholarships to boost a man's educational level, job coaching to boost his income, etc. If they take an average Joe "as is" and make him appear to appeal based on status, income, cars - sounds to men like they have to invent a lot of BS and fiction.
Nutz, basically what you're saying is that dating to you is a sport. You don't really want the girl, you just want to get the girl and mark her on your scorecard.
That's vile, IMO because to you women are just there to futher your "game". Most of the women I know are not looking to be used for the short-term, but to meet a man with the possibility of a future.
That wasn't my point. Whether it's possible or impossible to change a man is immaterial. My point is that women are grown ups, just like men, and that they often make conscious decisions to chase jerks and badboys because it's, well, fun. So you shouldn't be quick to attribute a woman's attraction to jerks to "low self-esteem?"
You missed my point as well. I'm not arguing that learning how to be charming can't help a guy catch more women--I admitted that it can. What I don't get is how acting this way can help a guy keep a woman. It seems to promote the opposite, and I believe a lot of the guys who follow this stuff are just lonely dudes who wish they ultimately had a real girlfriend.
I am not asking about women's motivation, which is what you are addressing. I am asking about men's motivation and what they ultimately hope to gain from this way of dealing with women. To get laid a lot? Okay, that might work, but is that all there is? Just to get laid a lot? I like sex as much as anybody, but that seems like a sad life to me. Being in your 40s and 50s as a PUA seems like 5 a.m. at the strip club: it starts getting light and you realize everybody looks like ****.
You missed my point as well. I'm not arguing that learning how to be charming can't help a guy catch more women--I admitted that it can. What I don't get is how acting this way can help a guy keep a woman. It seems to promote the opposite, and I believe a lot of the guys who follow this stuff are just lonely dudes who wish they ultimately had a real girlfriend.
I am not asking about women's motivation, which is what you are addressing. I am asking about men's motivation and what they ultimately hope to gain from this way of dealing with women. To get laid a lot? Okay, that might work, but is that all there is? Just to get laid a lot? I like sex as much as anybody, but that seems like a sad life to me. Being in your 40s and 50s as a PUA seems like 5 a.m. at the strip club: it starts getting light and you realize everybody looks like ****.
It depends on the guy. He could use game to attract and keep a long-term girlfriend or he could use it to sleep with as many women as possible.
A woman could use her pretty face and curvy body to attract and keep a long-term boyfriend or she could use them to get free meals, drinks, and vacations.
The assumption that men want to use game to sleep with a lot of women is a faulty one. Some men simply want a pretty girlfriend. It's not fair to assume that it's every man's goal to use women for sex just like it's unfair to assume that every woman's goal is to use a man for his money.
I disagree. Great comparison by the way a 40 year old man to a 56 year old woman. I bet though if Oprah chose to use her money and status, llike you recommend men do, she'd have just as many men falling all over her. The point is none of these people are sincere.
1) There's a difference in "get for the sake of seeing if you can establish a relationship" and "get for the sake of getting".
2) I don't approach & get girls. I'm a married woman.
3) Maybe it's just me, but I don't agree with your comparisons. Wearing makeup, push-up bras, etc to me are equivalent to a well-groomed man man wearing boots with a heel.
4) Why do I think it's based on lies? Again, because I haven't heard of PUA/dating coaches giving scholarships to boost a man's educational level, job coaching to boost his income, etc. If they take an average Joe "as is" and make him appear to appeal based on status, income, cars - sounds to men like they have to invent a lot of BS and fiction.
Just my 0.02
No Oprah couldn't. She will never have attractive (read: high status) men chasing her down because men are not attracted to status and power. Men are attracted to youth and beauty. It's an unfortunate reality for most women, but it's reality nonetheless. A slim, pretty 23-year old waitress has a 4000% better chance of landing a dashing, handsome billionaire tycoon than Oprah Winfrey.
Again, why is the assumption that a man wants to improve his game just to have sex? Do you also assume that when a woman tries to lose weight to become more attractive to men that her underlying motive is to suck men dry of their money?
Most men have already maxed out their educational attainment and earning potential, though those could be improved upon as well. But most men have not maxed out their game status, which will also help them become more attractive to a larger pool of women.
The bottom line is this: Women are attracted to brilliant, handsome and charming. Men who lack brilliance, looks or charm could make do with money. And for those who are stupid, unaccomplished, ugly, poor and have the manners of cavemen, there is "game". Works great on women who are
(1) imaginary;
(2) inflatable;
(3) flat-out drunk; or
(4) have abysmally low self-esteem
It depends on the guy. He could use game to attract and keep a long-term girlfriend or he could use it to sleep with as many women as possible.
A woman could use her pretty face and curvy body to attract and keep a long-term boyfriend or she could use them to get free meals, drinks, and vacations.
The assumption that men want to use game to sleep with a lot of women is a faulty one. Some men simply want a pretty girlfriend. It's not fair to assume that it's every man's goal to use women for sex just like it's unfair to assume that every woman's goal is to use a man for his money.
I've read some of that Citizen Renegade blog that you and Nutz like. Do you really think this sounds like a guy who wants to attract and keep a long-term girlfriend?
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The worst thing a man could do would be to feed this beast even further with traditional courtship game. It’s not for nothing that modern game focuses so much attention on breaking down a woman’s self-esteem into manageable chunks — negs, qualification, teasing, push-pull, takeaways, calculated indifference — all are game tactics with the primary purpose of knocking bigheaded chicks off their royal, gilded vaj-shaped thrones. And these tactics are effective precisely because girls want to be dethroned by a man of higher value than themselves, whether they admit to this or not.
Isn't a long-term girlfriend someone a man wants to, among other things, respect? Why would a man want to keep a "bigheaded chick [on a] royal, gilded vaj-shaped throne"? The writer of this blog seems to despise women.
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a 40 year old man to a 56 year old woman. I bet though if Oprah chose to use her money and status, llike you recommend men do, she'd have just as many men falling all over her. The point is none of these people are sincere.
