Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Perhaps Jim has expressed to her that you won't be able to support the lease so she is afraid to rent to you. Otherwise I would press on and let her step on her toes and then you can own the place.
We waited a half an hour for our earlier appointment. Finally we went into the therapists office. He sat in a chair, I sat near him, on a couch, she was in a corner, across from us.
He had homework, from his last visit. One thing was to do something that he enjoyed, for himself...he went to the concert. She did not even ask after the other thing, he was to list five things good about himself.
We started in. I talked a little of myself, and of my history with him, and he spoke of me reaching what is the straw that broke the camels back.
he explained it so calmly, the events of that night, he left so many things out. I interjected. I let him get to the part where I was taken to the 'place' and I said I have got to say something.
He had sat there and said all sorts of things out of place, things that did not happen, things that were not included, etc. So, I started out from the beginning, of the events of that Friday night, 2 weeks ago. She was shocked. He sat there so calmly, so arrogantly explaining the situation, in his words, and in mine, things were so very different.
So many times during the session I sat there, let him finish, and told it my way. I let this woman know how my life was, and how it is, and that I cannot live like this any longer.
He sat there. She kept on about its not really over, blah blah blah. I said, but it is. This is what you dont see. I have lived like this for so long, overcome, and will not go back.
He accuses me of giving up, and she asks if I have given up. I say no, I have prayed and prayed, stayed and stayed, and I can't do it anymore.
She seemed overwhelmed with the situation. Towards the end, she wanted us to do an exercise everyday, ev other day...whatever. Communicate for five minutes about nothing in particular, calmly. I told her it depends on who i get...jekyl or Hyde. She says if it starts to go in a bad direction, to end it. To begin again in another day or two.
I asked her what she expected to come from this. I told her that I understand good communication skills are a must. I told her, that for the kids, we must have this, I know this. I asked her, other than these things, what are YOUR expectations for this exercise? Do you think this will bring us closer?
I have told him that the hands of the clock don't turn back, I won't turn back. She says we never know. I say, I know.
I don't think she was ready for me. I don't think Drs, thereapists, etc are ready for people to question them like that. She said our time is up after that. Did not say when we were to come back...nothing.
Jim went to the desk, and the receptionist had to go and ask her....3 weeks. 3 weeks? My therapist, when I am in a bad way, brings me back ev week.
When we were talking to her, I told the lady, he has emotionally abused the kids and I for all of these years, told her about the incident in Burger King w the kids, I told her many things. I said how am I supposed to trust him after all of these years? Then after what he did to me a couple of weeks ago? What comes next? Physical abuse? She just looked at me. I said to her that I told him all of this time, had he just punched me in the face, it would have been better, than the adding up of all of this emotional turmoil.
At home, he told me he felt so much more could have been accomplished there today. He thought the woman was taken back, by me speaking out to her. I told him I was not just going to sit there. He said, but when you questioned her like that towards the end. I don't think she knew what to do with that.
Not my problem. He says what should I do? Should I go back to her? Should I see someone else? What should I do? He seemed confused and worried. Troubled. I asked him how his first visit with her was... he said, with the things he told her about me, such as my different ailments and clutter..lol... she was in shock, and he worried that in brining me to the next appointment that she may go off on me or something. huh.
I told him if he felt comfortable he should continue seeing her. If he felt she would not be of help, he should seek help elsewhere. Also, I told him I feel he has underlying PSYCHOLOGICAL MEDICAL issues that she cannot take care of.
He asked if I would go back, even though he accepted an appointment that was an obvious time that i am at work. He told me that he thought we didn't get along, see eye to eye, and he figured I didn't want to see her again.
I figure...he doesn't want me to see her again....
Robyn, the impression I get from your post is that you weren't comfortable with her. IMO that's a good reason for you to maybe not go back to this particular person. Leave whatever Jim may want (for you to go back or not go back) completely out of it, and think about how this lady made YOU feel and what your gut reactions to her were.
My guess is that you didn't think she was accurately hearing what you were saying, or maybe she was hearing it but is refusing to accept what your obviously very strong feeling is (that your marriage is over because you're now at your absolute end point of tolerance).
If this meeting made you feel like you were in an adversarial relationship with her, then IMO she isn't the right counselor for you (meaning you, yourself, not "you" as in "you and Jim"). You don't need to feel like you have TWO opponents in each meeting (Jim AND the counselor). Is there someone else you could try going to?
Just like doctors and hair stylists, not everyone "clicks" with the same person, right? If the vibes are that much off, why go back and put more stress into your life? You've got enough of that already.
As a veteran of numerous marriage counselors and shrinks, I can tell you the format I have found most productive is for each spouse to have a one-on-one session with the counselor, and then have both come in together. And weekly sessions. So first session, one spouse goes in solo, then next session, the other spouse goes in solo, then third session, both go together. Early on, those sessions may occur all within the span of a week or so. After working with the counselor for a while, they may be spaced out a little more, but I have found the format itself productive. That gives each spouse an opportunity to present their version of reality in an uninterrupted manner before going in together.
Also, if the counselor is a qualified mental health professional who can screen for mental health issues like depression, etc.... all the better.
Robyn, you must have been emotionally exhausted when you got home tonight...so glad you posted before going to bed.
Although I understand 4SC's impressions and resulting advice, I offer you another impression for your consideration:
You are probably right about the therapist's being disconcerted by what you had to say...but possibly not bec you were so adament, rather bec she had only heard J's side beforehand. I'll bet she WAS shocked and wasn't quite sure how to handle the situation. And the 3wk-wait until the next appt is unbelieveably insensitive to her client's (J) needs...she discovered tonight that he is openly misleading (lying to) her, as to how he's behaved and why his marriage is in such a crisis...she should be seeing him with/or without you by next week to process this point...maybe insurance was an issue...I am used to and promote the process Shuke mentions (above) as most clinically productive.
J is not going to want to return for more reasons than he is just not interested in personal growth...now he's been "busted", as to how out-of- control his behavior has been all his married life. He's acting like YOU ARE THE ONE who doesn't want to go back, but HE NEEDS to go back to her to finally (for the first time in his life) face the music and be accountable for his actions. He will never change unless he is confronted with these things ~ and he would have to return to the same counselor who learned the truth, to have that happen.
Personally, I would suggest to him that you would go back to her, but he needs to be out of the house & seeing her himself, first. Then you can decide what you want to do, when the time comes...I don't think for one minute he'll go back, now that he's been "revealed".
You showed great maturity and restraint by letting J tell his lies, then by your retelling your version ~ how did J respond when you corrected his stories? With anger or manipulative arguing? Did she ever ask J to explain his behavior?
You affirmed extremely well to both of them that you have prayed, tried and will not go back to the way of living you had before ~ therapist missed the boat by not asking J, "how do you feel about what Robyn has said to you" and "why are you not accepting Robyn's decision" ~ it was a perfect reflection (for her) of J's ongoing lack of respect for what you say and think. Therapist missed an opp there.
I don't think Drs, thereapists, etc are ready for people to question them like that.
On the contrary, good seasoned counselors are open to the challenge of an inquiring mind in sessions ~ it wasn't a good sign that she seemed to not be sure how to handle you. Regardless, you did well to speak up and to not lose the opp to express yourself to this professional.
Assure your husband that you will be speaking out about your feelings whenever you are with a professional ~ that he SHOULD go back and speak with her himself the next time and you will go to a followup session~ I suspect he doesn't have the courage to go back at all, and that you won't be needing to concern yourself with any followup meetings.
Again, I'm very imprssed with your perspective on the session and on how well you handled yourself! You did very well tonight Robyn - lots WAS accomplished - the truth came out and J wasn't able to manipulate you as he usually does, and I suspect he won't be able to manipulate the therapist as easily again in the future...What the heck is the 3wk wait for - I hate to say it, but I think she was shocked with all she learned tonight, sees J as too difficult & unscrupulous client, and is hoping he will just blow her off. Counselors can become very fond of their clients and I'm guessing she's not "feeling the love" for Jim. I could be wrong...just my thoughts.
he worried that in bringing me to the next appointment that she may go off on me or something
I doubt he was "worried", rather I think he'd hoped her disapproval of you (after his verbally-bashing you in the previous session), along with his own disapproval, would once again overwhelm you with guilt and indecision ~ J never expected you to stand up to the therapist ~ and so appropriately too! I'm so proud of you Robyn!
PS: For your consideration, you might tell J you've reconsidered the experience and that you feel you DID get along with HIS therapist by helping her see "eye-to-eye" with you, and you will go back, as long as he continues to see her on his own. I'm just being mean here, bec I think J's looking for an excuse to blame you for dropping the therapist ~ and will be using that against you in court and with friends and family..."Robyn's the one who didn't want to get help."
Hope you are resting peacefully tonight, you did well and you deserve it. Good Night, MsV
He sat there. She kept on about its not really over, blah blah blah. I said, but it is. This is what you dont see. I have lived like this for so long, overcome, and will not go back.
He accuses me of giving up, and she asks if I have given up. I say no, I have prayed and prayed, stayed and stayed, and I can't do it anymore.
She seemed overwhelmed with the situation. Towards the end, she wanted us to do an exercise everyday, ev other day...whatever. Communicate for five minutes about nothing in particular, calmly. I told her it depends on who i get...jekyl or Hyde. She says if it starts to go in a bad direction, to end it. To begin again in another day or two.
I asked her what she expected to come from this. I told her that I understand good communication skills are a must. I told her, that for the kids, we must have this, I know this. I asked her, other than these things, what are YOUR expectations for this exercise? Do you think this will bring us closer?
I have told him that the hands of the clock don't turn back, I won't turn back. She says we never know. I say, I know.
cinderobyn, when you were asked if you have given up and you said: " I say no, I have prayed and prayed, stayed and stayed, and I can't do it anymore.", didn't you mean to write "yes" ?
I suspect that you don't like the counselor because it's her job to see if there is any hope for saving your marriage. There's always one spouse that has more love and committment than the other.
But it's important to realize that even though you hate Jim's behavior, that doesn't mean that you hate Jim, does it?
I mean to ask that if there was a miracle cure for Jim's behavior (over a brief period of time), would you still want a divorce?
Behavioral illnesses are often like physical illnesses, people need the right professional treatment & help for their "illness" to improve.
Since both of you have had illnesses, you realize how long it can take for there to be proper treatment and improvement. It's doesn't happen overnight, but sometimes there can be rapid improvement.
Isn't that what you meant by saying "she asks if I have given up. I say no, I have prayed and prayed, stayed and stayed, and I can't do it anymore."
That's why it's sometimes not ideal to rush into making a decision about separation and divorce without first seeing whether or not professional advice & treatment will help.
It does mean swallowing some pride, and admitting that there are still some feelings for each other.
If the legal separation were put on hold until the term of the present housing lease expires, then at least the situation regarding the housing lease could be resolved in favor of giving you more time to find a co-signer or alternative housing.
About 60 days before the lease expires, you & Jim could inform the landlord of your intentions about whether the lease will be renewed or not.
This would give both of you a trial period for Jim to receive treatment, and allows both of you to make all of the agreements & arrangements necessary to either stay together or split up without being too hasty about refusing treatment options.
Seeking a divorce does serve as a powerful wake-up call.
About the lease:
It's a signed contract and a done deal for the duration of the lease unless the landlord voluntarily chooses to alter it. The landlord can reject any co-signer if they choose to for financial or other reasons.
Even if Jim allowed his name to stay on the lease until it expires, you may still need to find a co-signer to renew it.
Even if Jim pays support, the landlord wants to have 2 parties legally liable in the event of non-payment due to illness, unemployment, death etc...
So, it's important to realize the implications for you and the children if the sweet housing deal is lost.
If Jim's name can't be removed or if you don't find a qualified co-signer as soon as you'd like, how much time is there before the current lease expires?
cinderobyn, when you were asked if you have given up and you said: " I say no, I have prayed and prayed, stayed and stayed, and I can't do it anymore.", didn't you mean to write "yes" ?
I suspect that you don't like the counselor because it's her job to see if there is any hope for saving your marriage. There's always one spouse that has more love and committment than the other.
But it's important to realize that even though you hate Jim's behavior, that doesn't mean that you hate Jim, does it?
I mean to ask that if there was a miracle cure for Jim's behavior (over a brief period of time), would you still want a divorce?
Behavioral illnesses are often like physical illnesses, people need the right professional treatment & help for their "illness" to improve.
Since both of you have had illnesses, you realize how long it can take for there to be proper treatment and improvement. It's doesn't happen overnight, but sometimes there can be rapid improvement.
Isn't that what you meant by saying "she asks if I have given up. I say no, I have prayed and prayed, stayed and stayed, and I can't do it anymore."
That's why it's sometimes not ideal to rush into making a decision about separation and divorce without first seeing whether or not professional advice & treatment will help.
It does mean swallowing some pride, and admitting that there are still some feelings for each other.
If the legal separation were put on hold until the term of the present housing lease expires, then at least the situation regarding the housing lease could be resolved in favor of giving you more time to find a co-signer or alternative housing.
About 60 days before the lease expires, you & Jim could inform the landlord of your intentions about whether the lease will be renewed or not.
This would give both of you a trial period for Jim to receive treatment, and allows both of you to make all of the agreements & arrangements necessary to either stay together or split up without being too hasty about refusing treatment options.
Seeking a divorce does serve as a powerful wake-up call.
About the lease:
It's a signed contract and a done deal for the duration of the lease unless the landlord voluntarily chooses to alter it. The landlord can reject any co-signer if they choose to for financial or other reasons.
Even if Jim allowed his name to stay on the lease until it expires, you may still need to find a co-signer to renew it.
Even if Jim pays support, the landlord wants to have 2 parties legally liable in the event of non-payment due to illness, unemployment, death etc...
So, it's important to realize the implications for you and the children if the sweet housing deal is lost.
If Jim's name can't be removed or if you don't find a qualified co-signer as soon as you'd like, how much time is there before the current lease expires?
No, I did not mean to say yes. I did not mean to say yes, because The answer is not yes, I am giving up. The answer is No, I did not give up. I have gone through this for years, he has sought counsel in the past, and nothing has ever changed, but only worsened. A person can only take so much.
My lease was for one year, approx five years ago, as stated in the lease, it is paid from month to month with the stipulation that if we are moving out, we give 60 days notice.
I have not given up, abuse is abuse, and I can't handle abuse anymore. After 12+ years, I think I have tried long enough. I think I have asked him to please get help long enough, and he has refused. There is nothing wrong with him.
I don't have a problem with the counselor, I never stated I don't like her. I do hate Jims behavior. I don't have all hate gfor him, but an important thing to realize here is that I have LOVE for my children and myself. We should not have had to go through what we have endured for this long, let alone keep doing it.
If there was a miracle cure, and there is not, and if there was, he would not accept it, I feel he has Bi polar, and he wont be evaluated for anything, he was going to cancel last nights appointment, no, I would not stay with him, I would still want a divorce.
The love I feel for him, at this point is love that I have because of the bond of our children. It is not the love of a man and a wife. He has treated me so badly, that the love like that has probably been gone long ago, but in my fog, I did not realize it.
My illness~~~I still have them. Heres the thing. One day I had the horrid problems of them, the next day the problems were gone, and still are, thus allowing all of this emotional turmoil to seep from my every being. To show me what is going on in my life. To give me the strength to stop it.
Would you want to live a life like this? Would you want to be emotionally abused for years on end, and have your husbans and MIL try and have you committed only to wait for a possible miracle cure, while enduring the same treatment? I dont want to do that.
My husband doesn't have love and committment. He has controlling behaviors and rage. He is losing that now, and it is showing, he is not so sure of himself now.
Swallowing pride....I can only smile at that....can you imagine how many years I have done that? At home, in public? At family outings? Does a person have to live like that? I don't think they do. I have not rushed to this decision.
The lease, to me right now, after all of the upset it caused me yesterday is small beans. I don't even care. Will I have to find another place? Maybe.
Also, Jim has agreed to stay on the lease, while not living here. This place is not a sweet housing deal. I do not live in the lap of luxury here. It is a 3 bdrm home, yes, but very small. there are railrood tracks running through my back yard that go to the chemical plant down the street, almost a mile, the tracks are used for that purpose only. She lets the septic back up, and we go without water sometimes. Sweet, right? We have one small bathroom and a very small kitchen that is not big enough to eat in. Ouor washer and dryer are in there as well. The floors of the house are not balanced, the kitchen especially. We have had to buy 2 washers because they are not on a level floor no matter what we do, and they get burned out.
I have such a sweet housing deal.. rock on!
So, NO, I have not given up.
NO, I don't feel I need this treatment anymore, nor my children.
I did not have a problem with that therapist.
There is NO miracle cure for him. He is not willing to seek help.
He flat out lied to the therapist about events that took place. Do I trust him...NO.
Jim has asked me, if over time, he got 'better' could we stay together. NO.
NO NO NO If you can get better, you can get worse. Why would i want to go back?
I would go back to that counselor today, i dont care. She should have him back in 1 week. Not 3 weeks.
For now, I am done defending my feelings. Which is fine, everyone is allowed their perspective, and those were mine.
I am done. There is no going back, and he knows it. If I had done the things he has done to me, I would not expect anything else from him either.
Last edited by Pikantari; 08-03-2007 at 03:45 AM..
Was i awake? Was I dreaming? I was dreaming, and my mind pulled me out. I was dreaming about Jim and the counselor, we were in a long room, walking back and forth, you;re giving up you're not trying.
After answering the above post, it almost seems appropriate.
She was just like some of my friends, even my sister at first. Until what happened. Until I openly told my story at work.
I think until you see the raw emotion, and maybe not even really then, you don't really know.
I remember sitting there that day, telling of my life with him, and how they had me hauled off in that police car. How the people who were saying don't give up, try harder sat and shook their heads, shed tears.
And..they had not even walked in my shoes. There is no going back. There is no miracle cure, and even if there was, he wouldn't accept it. because in accepting it, it would mean that there must be something wrong with him, and that is something he is not willing to do.
I was a bit taken aback at that last post to me, but i tried to answer appropriately. My answer wasn't meant to be yes, I am giving up. No..I have tried. I have tried more than anyone should have to try, and then some.
I do not smile right now, but i can feel that my eyebrows and forehead are wrinkled, just wondering...what in the world?
Am I giving up? Well, we have been married 12 years, and together 16. I think I am a bit past the giving up stage. I am 33, and 16 years is a big chunk of my life at this point. It was a huge step foward for me to get to where I am now.
Did I not like the thereapist? That was not an issue. Was I going to sit there and act like my world was fine, and that all was well. No, absolutely not. He had already painted his picture, now, it was time to add my colors of the life. I was not afraid. When speaking of that night, did fear enter my voice? Oh yes it did. I couldn't help it.
He never stopped anything I said at any point. Only with the shake of his head and his arrogant look about himself.
I beat my alarm by 40 minutes today. I just think I need a vacation. Just need to stop. No work. nothing. A break.
Today I get paid. I will get my radiator flushed, and I am going to call about this cute house I have seen for rent. I know I will need to have a security deposit, if the house is in an ok price range, but we have done nothing but repairs on this old place. There is no reason I should not get my full depostit back, other than the everlasting peeling paint project going on in Lindsays room, which I can fix.
I paid that deposit with my money, just as I paid all of the rent, just as I bought all of the furniture, just as I bought and paid for my car and Jims truck. he always wonders where my money goes. I think that is kind of funny, looking back.
If I leave, and he leaves, she will have to try and find a renter for the place and she does not use advertisement, but word of mouoth, everyone is so pi$$ed off at her, because she doesn't take care of the houses at all, and well, they are trash. I will check on that house today, if the price is too high, it may be, i will move along, with a positive attitude.
Oh yesterday was a downer, but I am going to try and be up today. I am going to try.
If it is on time, and the fog is not there, the sun should greet me soon, must get my coffee on the move.
Robyn, the impression I get from your post is that you weren't comfortable with her. IMO that's a good reason for you to maybe not go back to this particular person. Leave whatever Jim may want (for you to go back or not go back) completely out of it, and think about how this lady made YOU feel and what your gut reactions to her were.
My guess is that you didn't think she was accurately hearing what you were saying, or maybe she was hearing it but is refusing to accept what your obviously very strong feeling is (that your marriage is over because you're now at your absolute end point of tolerance).
If this meeting made you feel like you were in an adversarial relationship with her, then IMO she isn't the right counselor for you (meaning you, yourself, not "you" as in "you and Jim"). You don't need to feel like you have TWO opponents in each meeting (Jim AND the counselor). Is there someone else you could try going to?
Just like doctors and hair stylists, not everyone "clicks" with the same person, right? If the vibes are that much off, why go back and put more stress into your life? You've got enough of that already.
Just my two cents for what they're worth.
HI! I have an appt with my therapist, but not til Sept 4. I have not seen her since 03, and I am concidered a new patient. I scheduled this almost a month ago. I can't wait to see her...she is the best. She is a Neurophysiologist, and when I went to her before, she worked wonders for me. i know she will help me again. I have all faith in it. I just thought about it, that is the first day of school...eeek! It will be fine. I am on her cx list, and going to call again tomorrow, well, its dark right now, I am meaning to sday today...
robyn if you use your money for the cars and rent and stuff what does he do with his money
I think you need to seriously reconsider taking the spousal support.
I don't understand if you paid for the car and truck why does he have to go and put the car in your name ?
your landlord sound like a real gem
I would go look at the other house if you don't have a signed lease you are considered to be on a month to month tenancy you only have to give 30 days notice. Why do you guys have to pay for repairs on her property sounds as if it is time to stop her from taking advantage
Now that you have found your "voice" I think you will find that you will put up with less BS on a lot of things.
gosh I wish I lived up there closer I would be up in their faces with you,
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Calm and Arrogant
For now, I am done defending my feelings. Which is fine, everyone is allowed their perspective, and those were mine.
