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When you're out in public maybe driving somewhere, going through the mall or anyplace where people gather you just don't see shortages of one gender or the other. It's always about the same. The only place you would probably see mostly men would be in strip clubs, Hooters, etc. if you get my drift but those are establishments that cater to men so that's what you'd expect. I'll say it again, there is no shortage of men or women, they're all over the place.
It's counterintuitive to look at groups of people out and about in town and conclude there's no "shortage". Imagine it's a game of musical chairs when the boys and girls sit down there are extra boys left over, an imbalance that might not be noticeable on the surface but nevertheless exists. I've already run the numbers in previous postings, statistics are available online, the demographics don't change, There is a shortage of women in the young reproductive category (20 something) and a surplus of women in the older geriatric category. Birth and death patterns don't change much. If anything the problem is understated because population statistics aren't including the impact of immigration (in the single young category it's primarily men). You are being disingenuous with vague statements like "men" and "women" in general. Are you talking about young men? Older men? young women? older women? The point of this thread has been to explore the demographics in different age groups which is different than a discussion using aggregate numbers.
I see young women walking around town where I live, some of them are even pretty nice looking, but you do anything single oriented and these nice looking young girls disappear, mostly all you see is a bunch of horny dudes. All those nice looking girls I saw walking around aren't there because they already in a relationship or have so many guys after them the single scene is optional. If you don't meet them in life you're generally **** out of luck.
Montanaguy - Your name sounds like you are a guy unless you are a woman posing as a guy (people can easily do that online). In this discussion gender can be important in knowing how objective people are. Young women are very reluctant to admit there is a shortage in their demographic. They hang on to their victim status with all their might. No matter how young and beautiful they might be they'll never admit they have an advantage in the dating scene. If they are attracted to abusive douchebags then they aren't responsible, they were forced into it by circumstances, you know, a horrible unfair man shortage. It's a bunch of bullcrap and we all know it.
Men also do a lot of posing, they won't admit they aren't getting laid regularly, they've got hot babes hanging all over them night and day while the guys who actually talk honestly about this stuff are the losers eating their dust. Sure, I'll believe it when I see it.
The demographic realities are written in stone, your anecdotal "evidence" doesn't contradict anything. No matter how many times you say it over and over again you can't run any numbers that would deny the truth because they don't exist.
It's counterintuitive to look at groups of people out and about in town and conclude there's no "shortage".
Agreed. I think 'watchers' are a slim minority. I think a lot of people find it easy to just listen to their friends' anecdotes rather than use their own senses and make up their own minds.
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I see young women walking around town where I live, some of them are even pretty nice looking, but you do anything single oriented and these nice looking young girls disappear, mostly all you see is a bunch of horny dudes.
I think that leads to a more difficult statistical question, "What are all the single people doing and where?"
I think there a lot of 'invisible' single people avoiding the cliche meeting places. They spend time with family, pursuing their pass-times, studying part time, doing sports. A lot of guys are busy with their sports. I was a weekend hiker and during the week toured the city parks. That was my exercise.
When I was single I hated the 'single scene". I detest dancing. I'm not the 'cool guy' or 'mysterious' guy that 'chicks' are checking out at the club. I was not that interested in the women that hung out there.
There were single women at my ski club.
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All those nice looking girls I saw walking around aren't there because they already in a relationship or have so many guys after them the single scene is optional. If you don't meet them in life you're generally **** out of luck.
I don't know if they feel they have the luxury to 'choose' alternatives as the word 'optional' suggests or that they outright reject these venues.
I mean, if the market were a man-fest then why are women complaining?
It makes no sense unless you conclude women are naturally whinny.
I grew up in NYC and there was more of a shortage of men. But recently I moved to the DC area and noticed how their is actually a woman shortage... which in face is a good thing for me
I'm glad you noticed it too. Can you expand, are you female? How did you "notice" it in DC? Just wanted to get another viewpoint.
I wanted to thank Desmon7 for his superb posts. Keep up the good work. I know it can be hard to write out all the details of this problem for folks who are disbelieving (as many are, particularly older people, because they grew up during a male shortage in the 70s/80s, so it's a new concept for them).
I still want to emphasize that a profound shift seems to have taken place just recently, only 2-3 years ago. If you had asked me around 2004-06 whether it was difficult to meet single girls in DC I would have said no, it was a piece of cake. But just recently, starting in '09, there was some kind of huge shift. It could be related to the end of the war in Iraq and the troops coming home, but I'm not sure.
I want to address the point about bars and clubs vs. church. Some posters are making excuses for women by saying that there's something about bars/clubs that turns women off. Nothing could be further from the truth. If there are single women in the population right now, you'd better believe they're going to be going to clubs and bars in droves and desperately trying to meet men. How do I know? because that was happening left and right in the mid-2000s. You don't need to persuade any single females to go to clubs, LOL, the only question is: are there any such girls in the local population, and if so, how many? If there's none, then there's none, and that's why you're witnessing sausage fests. It's that simple.
I think that leads to a more difficult statistical question, "What are all the single people doing and where?"
I don't know if they feel they have the luxury to 'choose' alternatives as the word 'optional' suggests or that they outright reject these venues.
I mean, if the market were a man-fest then why are women complaining?
It makes no sense unless you conclude women are naturally whinny.
Try this experiment. If you can get a single girl to a typical single filled with guys point out the skewed ratio and watch her reaction. I've done it a few times. Invariably she dimly looks around and says something like: I see more girls than guys (this with a ratio of at least 10 guys to 1 girl). Then say subtract the girls already with guys (eliminates most women) and count what's left (95% guys). She then will say something like: Those guys are a bunch of losers. Underscores how different women are than men. Guys in the same situation would be pumped and see opportunity, women reject it and see it as negative. Yes, I think they outright reject the venues (partly because they have options!), psychologically I would guess there's some deep seated inability to accept they have an advantage as women, possibly programming due to a lifetime of talk shows, women's magazines, etc... telling them that men are in control, perhaps also a need to feel dominated but a male surplus diminishes male power which then makes them demean those extra males as "losers" who can't get women. May even be true in some cases but plenty of those extra guys are just guys that have had bad luck. Getting a quality chick is often being in the right place at the right time and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the quality of a guy.
You may have meant this rhetorically but yes - "Why do women complain". Well women ALWAYS complain. No matter how young and beautiful they may be they always put on the "woe is me guys have got all the breaks socially while we poor ladies can't find a man act". Anyone who has watched Oprah, etc... with the supermodels who can't find a date knows this routine. Anybody actually believe that crap for one single second?
I'm not trying to sound like I'm bashing women. I'm not upset with women in any way. Yes, they're whiney, it's annoying but I don't hate them for it. It's not their fault this imbalance exists, it's just the way things are naturally. I can be philosophical about it. To be honest if the circumstances were reversed I think guys would probably behave even worse than women. I do get annoyed as hell when the media pushes the "man shortage" myth. If the truth was reported maybe a lot of those dudes from other countries who think America has got plenty of everything will realize the USA doesn't necessarily have an unlimited supply of loose young women.
The question "Where are all the single people doing and where?" I think was maybe meant to be "where are all the quality single young women and where". There's plenty of single guys anywhere you go. Are there places where the percentage of single young women is higher than others? Maybe warm weather cities close to beaches, college towns (more women than men attend college nowadays), areas with business that might employ more females than males, just a few things off the top of my head, maybe some guys have other suggestions.
I live in Portland OR. Some guys may have heard Tom Leykis bash the quality and quantity of women in Portland (Google Tom Leykis Porkland and you'll know). He's absolutely right. Portland is the nadir of single scenes. It's the manfest of all manfests. I've met guys who are goodlooking, charming and never had a problem with ladies but struggle here. After a while they are so demoralized they don't know what to do. Problem is that the place has doubled the population in 20 years and attracts mainly young single guys, hot chicks aren't interested in moving here and the best looking women get out as soon as they are old enough. Too rainy, dull and women aren't as interested as guys in the outdoor recreation Portland is famous for. The result is single bars filled with guys and few women. Oh yeah, Portland also has the highest percentage per capita of strip joints and XXX stores. Those horny guys end up somewhere after striking out in the bars. Just a warning for you guys, I know a lot of you have in the back of your mind that Portland sounds like a cool place to move to, yeah it's great for recreation but the hot chicks you'd like to meet aren't following you here.
Despite where I live I think I've had reasonable succes. No, I'm not claiming to be some stud like some guys might, I still have ups and downs but I've figured out some alternative ways to meet women.
First: "STAY AWAY FROM ANYTHING WITH A SINGLES CONNOTATION"
In Portland particularly, the stink of desperate men keeps quality women far away from singles activities. Yes, there are rubenesque, single mothers or older women available, though they are doing better than normal due to a high number of desperate dudes being unable to get other women. So be prepared to have even some of those women cop an attitude.
Try part time jobs. I have fond memories of my first few jobs in restaurants, partying after work with the waitresses and even hooking up with a few customers. I have a white collar job now but have picked up a few part time evening hostessing and table waiting gigs. Had some good results doing that. Another job I tried was phone soliciting. Yucky work but there's a lot of single women in a transitional point in life doing that work plus hours are flexible so you can work it into a schedule. Did that a few times and had good results.
College classes. That's an obvious one but think about what kind of courses attract a high percentage of women and do those ones. Costs some money but how much would you spend on dating services or dating in general. I found classes give you an opportunity to get to know someone in a non threatening situation and you can bypass some of the courting rituals.
Go to city hall and pick up a community education guide. All big cities should have them. I did an acting class once and met a great girl who had recently moved to Portland and we dated for a while. Now wanna be actresses and such don't usually move to Portland but the few that do may very well end up in a class like that. You want to be in a position to meet her before the many swinging d**ks zero in on her. It doesn't take them long.
Think about where you live. If you're not too tied down scope out the roommate ads and see if there are some houses with young ladies looking for roomates. Women tend to want to room with other women but if you search around you might find some willing to rent to a (non creepy) guy. You might find a fun party type house that brings you in contact with some young ladies who wouldn't otherwise even notice you.
These ideas are mostly about putting yourself in the right place at the right time than trying to chase women down in a single scene where you are at a huge disadvantage. Try to be kind of a stealth ladies man.
Now sometimes I do this stuff and nothing pans out. Other times it's great. My attitude is nothing ventured nothing gained and it keeps me busy even during lean periods.
I admit feeling frustrated having to go through such extreme effort to meet women but the alternative is not acceptable. I wish I could go to a singles bar where there was an even 50:50 male to female ratio. I feel confident I could do quite well there, but that doesn't exist so I do what I have to.
I'm not a serious relationship type of guy, I'm the kind of guy who like to play the field, meet different women and have a good time. I can't do that in single bars that are 95% single men. If the M/F ratio in your town is not that bad the above suggestions might work even better.
Hope those suggestions help. I know I placed some of this advice in the context of living in Portland but If I've had success here where I live doing this stuff has gotta be better anywhere else. Good luck.
I
I want to address the point about bars and clubs vs. church. Some posters are making excuses for women by saying that there's something about bars/clubs that turns women off. Nothing could be further from the truth. If there are single women in the population right now, you'd better believe they're going to be going to clubs and bars in droves and desperately trying to meet men. How do I know? because that was happening left and right in the mid-2000s. You don't need to persuade any single females to go to clubs, LOL, the only question is: are there any such girls in the local population, and if so, how many? If there's none, then there's none, and that's why you're witnessing sausage fests. It's that simple.
I wanted to follow up on this also Eugene. You are absolutely right about women going out like men. When they feel the need!
Women don't want to be alone any more than men do. If they don't have someone in their life or feel uncertain about meeting anyone they will go out and stay out as late as men do. The difference is that young women meet plenty of guys just through the natural course of life so they are relatively indifferent to single bars. I know what you mean about how this has gotten worse, I remember the late 80's and early 90's, the single scene in my town wasn't great but got much worse as the century ended, demographic and population shifts increased the number of men and reduced the number of women.
In my town you see some groups of women in the early hours. I call them the early shift, usually showing up around 7:30 or so, getting a place to sit, acting wild for a couple hours then taking off for home around 9:30 or 10 pm. Is 10 PM late? For genuinely single people the night is just getting started. After they leave the ratio jumps to at least 90% single men, and the guys just keep showing up. I used to have to talk my buddies into going early to the clubs, they would say: Nah, it's only cool to go late. I would say: I want to meet some women, I don't just want to go late and sit around with a bunch of dudes getting drunk. Problem is when you talk to these women you find out they are mostly bachelorette parties filled with married or attached women going out for a girls night out. Very few are actually single and looking. Basically you're trying to peel women away from husband and boyfriends, can be difficult and frustrating. After these women leave what's left can be pretty gruesome. These women usually fall into 4 categories: Morbidly obese, women with many children (and all the attendant financial and emotional burdens), coke whores, or women who date men of only one race (almost always black men), fine if you're black but not much good for white guys. These women stay out late because they have issues that put them in a position to have to look more than other women.
I'm digressing a bit but just wanted to get this out. Thanks for indulging.
First: "STAY AWAY FROM ANYTHING WITH A SINGLES CONNOTATION"
In Portland particularly, the stink of desperate men keeps quality women far away from singles activities.
Yup. Good insight as to why single women avoid bars/clubs.
I grew up in NYC and there was more of a shortage of men. But recently I moved to the DC area and noticed how their is actually a woman shortage... which in face is a good thing for me
No, don't tell me that! I'm considering DC as a possible move. I'm trying to escape the sausage fest that is Hampton Roads, one of the biggest military bases in the country. If you want to see an enormous surplus of guys come to southeastern Virginia. What's worse, when they get out of the military they tend to settle down here, adding more to the disparity.
Go to any club or bar in Virginia Beach or Norfolk and you'll see swarms of guys, both military and non-military and some foreign military too, with only a sparse number of girls.
I pray that any place is better than here.
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Anecdotal stories don't change the facts
