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So, I agree with you that it's probably a bad idea for her to keep this "friend." I agree having opposite sex friends is a fine line you have to walk in a marriage. You are probably right to feel threatened by this guy. It's not unusual when someone feels their partner has checked out, that they start looking for attention elsewhere. You may not see it that way, but really, how you see it is irrelevant. Her choices are made because of her feelings, not yours. If she is feeling you don't care about her, aren't invested in her, aren't connected to her, she's the one missing that.
Where I worry for you, is that even in this very long explanation, you can give a detailed listing of every tiny misstep she has made, yet you seem to have an excuse for everything she would have complained about with you. Or, you try to paint it as you being the hard working, suffering guy. I just don't buy it. I'm not saying she's perfect, and I'm not saying she hasn't made mistakes, but c'mon. Do you really not think you hold your fair share of the fault here?
She was lonely. Period. You were at a job where you were gone for 12 hour shifts every night. That's hard on a marriage. Not saying some people can't make it work, but it's hard. Then you blame her for "robbing time from me." Dude, you weren't there, by your choice! You've posted before about how she goes out with her sister and father, they come back home, and what do you do? Instead of socializing, you go upstairs to act all moody and emo, close the door to the room and do your music thing. I'm sorry, but can't you see how that behavior is problematic?
If you truly want to fix this marriage, both of you have to reengage. If both of you aren't in it 100%, then there's no point. It needs to look like you concentrating on your side of it, and her concentrating on her side. Right now, you're trying to micromanage her side, and ignoring your own. Yes, I agree she needs to stop talking to this guy. But right now, he may look like her only life raft, because things with you have gotten so bad. Perhaps she was even thinking of leaving. I don't know. So, yes, she needs to stop that, but you need to get yourself in order so you are something comforting to go home to. So, you want her to get off the laptop? Great. You get off the piano/headphones too. Put it all away. Reengage with your wife. You want to be a part of her life? Quit treating her family like they are a bunch of lepers and engage with them. Spend time with them, not hiding in the other room with your piano. Spend time with her, not hiding in the other room with your CD's. I agree she should cut things off with the other guy, but you're going to look like a hypocrite as long as you're telling her to give up her little addictions while clinging to your own.
I don't consider someone starting a close relationship with another man outside their marriage "a tiny misstep." ..is that what you're saying?
Yes, I remember the emotional ups and downs of that period of our life, I remember feeling like crap when I discovered she was staying up to talk to him (while I was working), and being completely blind sided when they met in person for the first time and they each lit up and got a "glow."
Do you know how horrible it feels to have another man come over, sit right up against your wife on a loveseat, "accidentally" put his hand on her leg and quickly take it off when you turn your head?
And then for your wife to push back "We're just friends! We're not like that! You're the one I love!" when you bring it up?
Or for her to take him into your bedroom to "show him pictures" while a friends cousin you're meeting for the first time yells "they're going to have sex!!" and the guy comes to the bedroom door, does a little dance and closes it?
..and then for your wife to claim "I never saw him do that!! They're just kidding - we're not like that!"
I ended up kicking that friend out, btw - she left thinking I'm a jack a**, and I gave my wife the benefit of the doubt, because I know she's not likely to do that. The guy - I think he obviously likes her, I know my wife cares about him, and have faith she wouldn't do anything with him. I got p*ssed she'd take him privately into our bedroom, and we agreed that wouldn't happen again..
Of course I have my faults and contributed - but "sorry I listened to 2 CDs instead of one.." is different than "sorry I met another guy, he has a crush on me and I get off on it, but I'd never sleep with him, and you deserve it because you spent time listening to 2 CD's today.." - don't you think?
The stuff with the father/her sisters you're jumping in time by about 4 years, and to a whole other issue.
In case you missed the working situation - I jumped online to talk to her on AIM after only 2-3 hours of working. We regularly talked on there or over the phone - I was not ignoring her. It was during that time a girlfriend she tried to make introduced her to the guy, and after all 3 of them began talking online, only he remained. Literally, while she was talking to me on the phone/computer (as in - I was not ignoring her, but actively talking to her) - she was actively talking to him. Even staying up after her and I talked on the phone right before bed. I thought she was going to sleep too, but nope!
And did you get the part that rather than come home and ignore her - I always brought home breakfast which we ate together while we watched tv? We then cuddled and went to sleep again..
Also, please explain how it was by my choice that while I'm working, she works on developing a friendship with him? That's how all this started, and what I don't accept blame for. I didn't driveher to another man out of me "ignoring her" - she was led there by a female friend who introduced them - my wife just decided she thought the guy was funny and enjoyed talking to him. Sorry, but I don't accept responsibility for that - I was talking to her and under the impression it was just her and I, only to find out later she liked talking to him too and developed a relationship with him on the side..
What I honestly feel and think (maybe it's wrong, but I'm certain it's not..) - but my thinking is - "Oh, we spent all day together at work, and now you're 'lonely' because I want to go listen to a 60 minute CD? GET A HOBBY, DON"T USE IT AS AN EXCUSE TO TALK TO ANOTHER MAN!!!!!!!!"
But I've said that before, she got offended and likely vented and complained to him about me (which she's done before and I've read..).
Anyway - keep in mind my wife and I discussed this to death already, and we're both sick of it. I'm just rehashing and filling more of the picture in, plus writing is cathartic.
I don't consider someone starting a close relationship with another man outside their marriage "a tiny misstep." ..is that what you're saying?
No, it's not. What I am saying (that is clearly ticking you off) is that your entitled attitude about how it's okay to do as you please and go be emo and moody while having a love affair with your piano isn't a tiny misstep either. At least, it isn't to your wife. If you want to stay married (to anyone), you need to learn how to listen to what matters to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
Do you know how horrible it feels to have another man come over, sit right up against your wife on a loveseat, "accidentally" put his hand on her leg and quickly take it off when you turn your head?
Well, I'm sure it must feel pretty bad. Yet, clearly not bad enough that you would get your head out of your butt and start trying a little harder to make it work with your wife. Look, I'm not saying she's perfect either, just that you need to understand how affairs start. There are some people who would never cheat. There are other people who would cheat no matter what--they are serially wired to do that no matter how perfect their partner is. Then there are the people who would only consider such a thing if they were in really bad circumstances. I worry that's what you have here. The marriage was allowed to get into a bad, neglected state. Your wife needed attention, affection, someone to put 100% into her, and month after month, year after year, you were so distracted with you that you weren't giving that to her.
Please understand, that does not excuse cheating. But it might help to think of this emotional affair more as the symptom rather than the disease itself. It is a symptom of how distant you two have grown in the marriage. You can get furious all you want. You can divorce her. You can be an a$$ and try to cut her off from the world. It will likely drive her right into his arms. I agree she needs to stop contact, make no mistake, but if you fail to address the fundamental flaws you have contributed to the downfall of this situation, you will never fix it. Even worse, you will drag these same problems into your next relationship. How many women will need to leave you before you wise up and decide your behavior just doesn't cut it in a relationship? If you're smart, you'll address it now, whether you can still save this marriage or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
Of course I have my faults and contributed - but "sorry I listened to 2 CDs instead of one.." is different than "sorry I met another guy, he has a crush on me and I get off on it, but I'd never sleep with him, and you deserve it because you spent time listening to 2 CD's today.." - don't you think?
They're both wrong. Her being wrong does not excuse you being wrong. Truly, both of you are acting like little children here. If you want to be married, you need to be more adult about this. No, a stupid CD does not come before your wife. If you think it should, then you have no business being anyone's husband.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
The stuff with the father/her sisters you're jumping in time by about 4 years, and to a whole other issue.
Sounds like the same issue to me. She spent time with her father and sister. You were butthurt and jealous. When they came home, instead of socializing politely with them, you got moody and emo and went upstairs to shut the door and sulk at your piano. This is the pattern she has a problem with. It's not "a whole 'nother issue," or at least, not to her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
What I honestly feel and think (maybe it's wrong, but I'm certain it's not..) - but my thinking is - "Oh, we spent all day together at work, and now you're 'lonely' because I want to go listen to a 60 minute CD? GET A HOBBY, DON"T USE IT AS AN EXCUSE TO TALK TO ANOTHER MAN!!!!!!!!"
And my response to that would be that if you want to be a married man, you need to act like one. You already work a job where you have to spend a LOT of hours away from her. Why can't you listen to the CD on your time there? Why can't you compose on your time there? Any reason you can't listen to the CD on that 90 minute wait to pick her up?
Listening to a CD is not bad in itself. Neither is composing, or playing the piano, or talking to a guy, for that matter. The problem comes when that behavior infringes upon the marriage. In your cases, it has. You're going to have to decide if you want to be married more than you want to win this argument. If you can't get past that, this marriage doesn't have a shot, sorry.
I'm skeptical. OP went from saying no cheating and able to talk things out and to turning to people..then men..online, to the wife having an inappropriate physicall contact with another man in person.
EITHER this is all BS or the OP is the one who wants out for whatever reasons and is desperately trying to convince himself and everyone else he is a victim of an evil woman. No dice. You were both young and stupid and will either mature together or fail.
I'm skeptical. OP went from saying no cheating and able to talk things out and to turning to people..then men..online, to the wife having an inappropriate physicall contact with another man in person.
EITHER this is all BS or the OP is the one who wants out for whatever reasons and is desperately trying to convince himself and everyone else he is a victim of an evil woman. No dice. You were both young and stupid and will either mature together or fail.
I never said they "cheated" or had sex...
My wife is not evil, I think she just liked him as a friend and it got out of control.
Again - our marriage is being worked on, he went bye bye, and her and me are working on our friendship again. We've been doing well and have been having fun together again like we use to...
A marriage has generally run it's course after about a month. By then everyone is sick of each other.
Marriage is like a 3 ring circus.
1..Engagement ring
2..Wedding ring
3..Suffer-ring
In the first year of marriage the man speaks and the woman listens. In the 2nd year of marriage the woman speaks and the man listens. In the 3rd year they both speak at the same time and the neighbors listen.
You married much too young my friend. No advice from me except to wish you and her luck and to remain friends. Hating each other is just not healthy.
thanks I needed to ...suffer-ing, the final stage...
OP you are 25...wow. you need to enjoy life, and if the issues are this dramatic now...It doesnt get easier over time.
IMO marriage is just not for everyone, its work, its not just going out and partying. That said, at 25 you should be having fun. just my 2 cents.
h886 - I thank you for your posts and time on this. However, the more it continues the more bothered I am at the idea of portraying my wife as "evil" or the bad one. I didn't even want to mention the other guy when I started the thread, as I feel that's the past, the issue is now solved, and I didn't want to think of her in those terms anymore.
I still very much feel their relationship led us quickly to where we are, and I still do not accept the blame for their relationship. Having lived it, I feel its not accurate to say our marriage was in shambles so she turned to him, or that I was working so much and ignored her, or that I came home and ignored her in favor of music. I explained why in the posts above..
I think what happened is more a testament to how insidious an emotional affair (sure, lets call it that) can be. She was looking for a female friend to shop with at the time, when her new girl friend introduced her to the guy. That relationship slowly developed - and while I - god forbid - put my headphones on and spent an hour listening to a CD - she continued talking to him. I don't think it happened "out of me ignoring her" and even if I spent 100% of my free time with her, it still would of happened. All it took was her on her laptop, him signing on, and they were going to talk.
The best we can do is learn from it and move on...which were in the process of doing.
I still very much feel their relationship led us quickly to where we are, and I still do not accept the blame for their relationship. Having lived it, I feel its not accurate to say our marriage was in shambles so she turned to him, or that I was working so much and ignored her, or that I came home and ignored her in favor of music. I explained why in the posts above..
I think what happened is more a testament to how insidious an emotional affair (sure, lets call it that) can be. She was looking for a female friend to shop with at the time, when her new girl friend introduced her to the guy. That relationship slowly developed - and while I - god forbid - put my headphones on and spent an hour listening to a CD - she continued talking to him. I don't think it happened "out of me ignoring her" and even if I spent 100% of my free time with her, it still would of happened. All it took was her on her laptop, him signing on, and they were going to talk.
The best we can do is learn from it and move on...which were in the process of doing.
I actually did read all of your follow-ups, including the parts where you explain your work situation, how the talking with this other guy started, and what you were doing with the music. However, even with your telling of events (which, for most people, would be biased towards them), I still feel there was a problem with what you were doing. I know that's not what you were hoping to hear, and I'm sorry for that.
It doesn't appear that you want any input to work on this situation that suggests you might have some things to work on yourself, so I will just wish you well. I truly hope you will examine your side in this. If your part in this is not corrected, history is bound to repeat itself. You might have banned this guy from her life, but so long as she feels you've closed yourself off, or spend too much time on hobbies in favor of neglecting her, that hole will be there. She'll simply find someone else to fill it. Food for thought.
Based on a few posts ive read, it seems that priorities are not where they should be, if I suspected I was 'losing' my wife, I would make my marriage my first priority (as it should be). It takes two people to mess up a relationship in most cases, and your wife does share some of the blame BUT when you see your wife connecting with another man, its a sign that she obviously isnt happy in the marriage. Now can women and men be friends? Of course, but there seems to be a line that has been crossed in this scenario. I know that when I put on headphones and just get lost in music its a) a form of escape, b) i'm literally closing off the world during that time period. So to you what may seem a harmless hour may register to you wife as 'during that hour my husband is not available in any sense be it physical, mental, emotional so I CANNOT communicate with him during this time, I guess I can talk to my friend online he will pay attention to me'.
Am I saying you can't listen to music? No, but you did mention spending sometimes 3 hours basically in your own head, that can make a wife feel isloated. Bottomline, put your wife first above all 'hobbies', yes its a hobby if it's not your primary job and/or you aren't making any money doing it.
-you ignore one another rather than fight
-you dream of the freedom being alone would give you
-you start separating bank accounts and keeping track of money
-you really start disliking the other person and their little ways you used to find charming
-you can't imagine the future with them anymore
-you stop going out together because you have nothing to talk about
Marriages fall apart for many reasons, you don't sound as if yours has ran its course.
Great post and spot-on perfect!
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...suffer-ing, the final stage...
...wow. you need to enjoy life, and if the issues are this dramatic now...It doesnt get easier over time.
