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Are you talking about me? I never asked that question. That really has little to do with the point I was trying to make.
I think I misunderstood. I though you asked if any of us women bothered to pick up the check. Not if anyone here bothered to put themselves in someone else's shoes. A fruitful exercise on many levels and for many reasons.
I think I misunderstood. I though you asked if any of us women bothered to pick up the check. Not if anyone here bothered to put themselves in someone else's shoes. A fruitful exercise on many levels and for many reasons.
No, I wasn't asking about picking up checks. I don't think I mentioned checks. I did specifically mention putting myself in another person's shoes. It's not really about the money. There are mentions of fast food in this thread, which doesn't cost. And of course we all pick up checks in whatever situations. It's the entitlement, the expectation. As mentioned earlier, it's a willful failure to acknowledge inequitable gender roles. I find that to be odd.
Mod cut: Orphaned. (Referenced post has been deleted.)
This thread has me wondering if if not all situations are appropriate for trying to put ourselves in the shoes of another. That's what I try to do as often as I can remember. I don't know if that's something people generally do. But, when I put myself in his or other guys shoes and imagine people expecting me to pay for them I find it annoying as all hell. Do you, or any of the other women in this thread, bother to do that? If so, how do you reconcile the expectation? If you're not doing that, why not? Or, as initially stated, is this just a subject where someone wouldn't bother trying to grasp a different perspective? Lots of questions.
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Originally Posted by stan4
I have an irritating habit of always picking up the tab when we go out to dinner (with friends, family, etc). I have picked up the tab for 14+ people before. I can't help myself...I am a tab picker upper. This is a well-known thing.
We had two friends who never reciprocated (or even offered to). They are no longer our friends. Yes. The expectation is EXTREMELY annoying. But it is a pure joy to do it for those we love (and who always either fight us for the check or do other things to show their appreciation).
My in-laws say we are the only one of their kids who insists on picking up the tab. They are rich as hell (millions), so all their kids just expect them to buy whenever they go out. I would find that so disrespectful and inconsiderate...I could never do that to them.
I agree with Yzette...people who keep score or go through all these crazy machinations to come up with some stupid formula of who should pay when...that is not how I operate. When I am surrounded by those I love (and vice versa), it's all about how much I can give.
This is our conversation. You mentioned checks. I did not.
This is our conversation. You mentioned checks. I did not.
Right, because I thought we were talking about paying for people...and the expectation of it. But now I am confused...aren't you talking more about putting yourself in someone else's shoes to realize how disturbing it is to exist in a paradigm where you are EXPECTED to do such and such (in this case, pay)?
Frankly, I think you are absolutely right. I think the expectation that men should pay and cater to the whims of the women is totally off-base and a bit hypocritical...that being said, the pursuer is always going to have to have more 'game' than the chased.
Right, because I thought we were talking about paying for people...and the expectation of it. But now I am confused...aren't you talking more about putting yourself in someone else's shoes to realize how disturbing it is to exist in a paradigm where you are EXPECTED to do such and such (in this case, pay)?
The exercise itself is about self reflection and a bit of thoughtfulness. "But, when I put myself in his or other guys shoes and imagine people expecting me to pay for them I find it annoying as all hell. Do you, or any of the other women in this thread, bother to do that?"
I guess I'm not doing a very good job articulating my point. I'm sorry about that. I have never been in these guys shoes because I would never spend time with a person that had bizarre expectations and clear gender bigotry. I would tell a man or woman who had such expectations, unless it were my child, to bugger off. So, I can only imagine. It's not a reality that can be actualized. And I suspect that is the case for the vast majority of women on this forum regardless of position on this subject.
Quote:
Frankly, I think you are absolutely right. I think the expectation that men should pay and cater to the whims of the women is totally off-base and a bit hypocritical...that being said, the pursuer is always going to have to have more 'game' than the chased.
I agree, and yea, it's certainly hypocritical. To be clear, I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with that. I'm not making charges about it. We're all hypocritical in various ways. I'm noting that people don't seem to be aware that they are hypocrites. Instead of acknowledging this simple truth, they attack men instead. Call the guys names for not being on board with their hypocrisy. Get real ladies is what I'm saying.
Right, because I thought we were talking about paying for people...and the expectation of it. But now I am confused...aren't you talking more about putting yourself in someone else's shoes to realize how disturbing it is to exist in a paradigm where you are EXPECTED to do such and such (in this case, pay)?
Frankly, I think you are absolutely right. I think the expectation that men should pay and cater to the whims of the women is totally off-base and a bit hypocritical...that being said, the pursuer is always going to have to have more 'game' than the chased.
I have never understood why women expect men to pay for them on dates.
Old traditions fade slowly. There was a time (in this country) when women did not have the right to vote (though, if their husbands did not vote as they wanted, the husbands often bore the brunt of it later), and it was very difficult for a woman to find a job outside the home, unless it was in a saloon or brothel (and, of course, a married woman generally did not even consider a brothel). In that period, a woman was almost completely dependent upon a man for everything. It was either her father and family, or her husband.
While times have changed to where it is often easier for a woman to find a job, the tradition of a man taking care of a woman still survives. (That concept is, very often, still the reason that a woman gets paid less than a man. "She's got an old man that's supporting her, and she's just trying to make a little extra money") Many men still feel that a "woman's place is in the home", and there are also women that simply want to be "a dumpy old housewife". So, some traditions do not die easily. Since neither of them wears a tag identifying just which they are, you're likely to run into either one or both at any given time.
I love that the s.o. pays for everything. He loves the random gifts I give him because I don't have to pay bills.
So you live together? And you basicly contribute nothing. He takes care of all the bills and pays for everything while you can spend all your money on anything you want.
We've lived together for five years. I sometimes pay on date night, but rarely. I buy virtually all the groceries on non-date nights, so it does even out. We don't keep score, we just play it by ear on an "I'll pick up the tab for this, you pick up the tab for this," sort of basis. Often, if we do dinner and a movie, etc., one will pay for dinner, the other will pay for the movie. Or, one will pay for the movie, the other will pay for the movie theatre snacks.
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