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Lap dances, female mud wrestling, porn ... meh. And I'm a woman. Unless you can come up with proof that he's cheating on you (or actually looking at bona fide child pornography), what you've got is just two very different sets of values. You would probably be happier apart. I don't think Jesus wants your kids to be miserable or think this represents a healthy marriage. So go ahead and divorce him - irreconcilable differences, I believe they call it.
I was thinking the same thing at first, but then I got to the part where he's coming home with hands that smell like vagina, and he's video chatting on casual sex dating sites with women 20 miles away? If he didn't already cheat, he's getting ready to. Doesn't matter what we say though because you can tell by her tone and language that she already made up her mind long before she posted on CD.
There are two sides to every story. Suggesting a divorce is usually the last bit of advice I give a couple who are having trouble, but to be honest with you, I couldn't possibly live with someone like you and I would not stay married to someone like you. You are doing the same thing my former wife of twenty years did. She made mountains out of mole hills until she couldn't stand it, then would confront me with accusations of things that were way out of proportion to what really happened. Her jealousy always made her assume the very worst. Maybe he did somethings he shouldn't have done, but beating him over the head for 14 years because of them doesn't make it any better, does it? I would be willing to bet if he were a perfect angel you would find fault with his actions somewhere along the line, if not you would search through his pants pockets, or check his internet history to make certain you had caught him. File for divorce and hope you will do better the next time around. You say you are not an unhappy woman, yet you sound like you are. I know one thing, you are not a smart woman. A smart woman would not see a marriage counselor and a divorce attorney at the same time.
I appreciate your insight. I disagree with your assertion, though, that I making mountains out of molehills. I forgave him and forgave him and forgave him of the past instances and moved on. That is why the title of my post is "do I keep on forgiving or throw in the towel?" I didn't beat him over the head about anything for 14 years at all. I don't go snooping tyring to catch him. I do the household laundry and I pull receipts out of his pockets before putting them in the wash. Having receipts in his pockets is regular for him...I check them to see if they are potentially reimbursable business receipts. And only twice in 14 years have I been surprised to find what he had been out doing.
I also don't check his internet history regularly. In fact, I've only checked it intentionally one time! A few weeks ago when I borrowed his ipad and when I put the cursor in the google search box all of his recent web history from the day before popped up and it was hard core porn - lots of it. The only time I actually went looking for something was when I got back in town from my trip. I sensed the intimacy wasn't there like I would expect it to be after we had been apart for 10 days and that is the only time I actually went looking at his internet history. Sure enough...he'd been on web cam sex chats with local women -- no wonder he wasn't nearly as excited to see me as I expected.
Just want to clear that up. These "discoveries" I made were not from searching and looking for "something, anything" to get mad at him about. They were mostly simple discoveries I made while going about normal daily household tasks.
Maybe your are right....maybe I should wait on contacting the divorce attorney...thank you for bringing that consideration to my attention. While I don't make mountains out of molehills regularly....maybe I am doing it this time.
I also realize I'm very confused, hurt, upset, and speaking in extremes myself in some of my posts...which I know from counseling that talking in extremes is not good for communication and problem solving.
I was thinking the same thing at first, but then I got to the part where he's coming home with hands that smell like vagina, and he's video chatting on casual sex dating sites with women 20 miles away? If he didn't already cheat, he's getting ready to. Doesn't matter what we say though because you can tell by her tone and language that she already made up her mind long before she posted on CD.
No I haven't made up my mind. I'm just vacillating between extremes right now and that is coming out in my posts. We have an appointment with a marriage and family counselor next Wednesday. I suppose I can wait and see how that goes before I actually contact an attorney.
Thank you all, you are actually helping me get some clarity more than I expected.
I'm going to preface this by admitting that it's difficult to comment on a situation when presented with only one perspective on a multiple-perspective issue. I'm neither judging you nor excusing any of his behavior.
You seem to go to great lengths to verify that his sexual needs are being met and, in the same breath, criticize his overall contributions to the social aspects of the family unit. Contrary to popular belief, and certainly what one can infer by reading anything that's written on City-Data, men are not singularly about sex. You might want to focus on and ask him if he feels valued and respected. The descriptions of his behavior read like someone who is very isolated.
It seems like you two got married for the wrong reasons: social expectations, and so on. You say you weren't all that into him (no "spark"), and he wasn't all that into you (starting with the batchelor partying, and so on). You guys made it work, or at least you did, by developing some love for him, but it sounds like he's been burying himself in work, and avoiding having a real relationship. (BTW, where can I get a part-time job that pays full-time? )
Maybe a little porn, and mud-wrestling isn't a big deal, but it seems like the porn has escalated over the years. And skipping a vacation with his family, even skipping joining for a weekend, in order to watch local women on web-cam? hmmm.... Not good. Bringing home new techniques? That's usually a sign that he's learned something with someone else, but given the porn-watching and magazine reading, who knows? Still, all these little thing do tend to point in a certain direction.
If you're disgusted by the extreme porn, and have lost all respect, how would it be possible to continue in the marriage for the rest of your life, anyway? It's good that he wants to work it out, but in order to effectively do that, he'd have to face his porn addiction and whatever else is going on, get therapy for it all, and end it. What's the likelihood of his doing that? And that's only one issue. The workaholism is another issue.
BTW, if he really thought he had PTSD, he should have sought help for that after the incident, and it would have been noticeable. It would have been interfering with his work, and you would have noticed emotional disturbances of some sort.
I can't give any advice, only point out a few things, give you food for thought. The depression was a good angle. Maybe he's depressed and is resorting to porn in part due to that?? If so, the marriage might be salvageable if he's willing to get help for his depression and porn addiction, but that will take time. If there are unaddressed childhood abuse issues, that could be one source of the depression. Even with a good therapist (hard to find), it would take at least a few years to resolve all that.
I'm going to preface this by admitting that it's difficult to comment on a situation when presented with only one perspective on a multiple-perspective issue. I'm neither judging you nor excusing any of his behavior.
You seem to go to great lengths to verify that his sexual needs are being met and, in the same breath, criticize his overall contributions to the social aspects of the family unit. Contrary to popular belief, and certainly what one can infer by reading anything that's written on City-Data, men are not singularly about sex. You might want to focus on and ask him if he feels valued and respected. The descriptions of his behavior read like someone who is very isolated.
...does he feel valued and respected? Well, definitely not right now. There is a long history for him going back to childhood....fear of abandonment by his parents....etc. His parents definitely were not able to give him unconditional love. His mother is the type to just cut off family members forever just because of a minor disagreement. My husband never felt good enough. His dad was alcoholic, abusive and had affairs. That all came out in our counseling we did about 7 years ago. Yes he is very isolated. Now I'm feeling really bad for him again. I don't know how to help him or if I even can.
It seems like you two got married for the wrong reasons: social expectations, and so on. You say you weren't all that into him (no "spark"), and he wasn't all that into you (starting with the batchelor partying, and so on). You guys made it work, or at least you did, by developing some love for him, but it sounds like he's been burying himself in work, and avoiding having a real relationship. (BTW, where can I get a part-time job that pays full-time? )
Maybe a little porn, and mud-wrestling isn't a big deal, but it seems like the porn has escalated over the years. And skipping a vacation with his family, even skipping joining for a weekend, in order to watch local women on web-cam? hmmm.... Not good. Bringing home new techniques? That's usually a sign that he's learned something with someone else, but given the porn-watching and magazine reading, who knows? Still, all these little thing do tend to point in a certain direction.
If you're disgusted by the extreme porn, and have lost all respect, how would it be possible to continue in the marriage for the rest of your life, anyway? It's good that he wants to work it out, but in order to effectively do that, he'd have to face his porn addiction and whatever else is going on, get therapy for it all, and end it. What's the likelihood of his doing that? And that's only one issue. The workaholism is another issue.
BTW, if he really thought he had PTSD, he should have sought help for that after the incident, and it would have been noticeable. It would have been interfering with his work, and you would have noticed emotional disturbances of some sort.
I can't give any advice, only point out a few things, give you food for thought. The depression was a good angle. Maybe he's depressed and is resorting to porn in part due to that?? If so, the marriage might be salvageable if he's willing to get help for his depression and porn addiction, but that will take time. If there are unaddressed childhood abuse issues, that could be one source of the depression. Even with a good therapist (hard to find), it would take at least a few years to resolve all that.
True, but a therapist could help alleviate some stress she has and her own personal issues. Doesn't have to be marriage counseling. I know there are some that see clients only a couple of times and then end their time together.
It seems like you two got married for the wrong reasons: social expectations, and so on. You say you weren't all that into him (no "spark"), and he wasn't all that into you (starting with the batchelor partying, and so on). You guys made it work, or at least you did, by developing some love for him, but it sounds like he's been burying himself in work, and avoiding having a real relationship. (BTW, where can I get a part-time job that pays full-time? )
Maybe a little porn, and mud-wrestling isn't a big deal, but it seems like the porn has escalated over the years. And skipping a vacation with his family, even skipping joining for a weekend, in order to watch local women on web-cam? hmmm.... Not good. Bringing home new techniques? That's usually a sign that he's learned something with someone else, but given the porn-watching and magazine reading, who knows? Still, all these little thing do tend to point in a certain direction.
If you're disgusted by the extreme porn, and have lost all respect, how would it be possible to continue in the marriage for the rest of your life, anyway? It's good that he wants to work it out, but in order to effectively do that, he'd have to face his porn addiction and whatever else is going on, get therapy for it all, and end it. What's the likelihood of his doing that? And that's only one issue. The workaholism is another issue.
BTW, if he really thought he had PTSD, he should have sought help for that after the incident, and it would have been noticeable. It would have been interfering with his work, and you would have noticed emotional disturbances of some sort.
I can't give any advice, only point out a few things, give you food for thought. The depression was a good angle. Maybe he's depressed and is resorting to porn in part due to that?? If so, the marriage might be salvageable if he's willing to get help for his depression and porn addiction, but that will take time. If there are unaddressed childhood abuse issues, that could be one source of the depression. Even with a good therapist (hard to find), it would take at least a few years to resolve all that.
Thank you for what you pointed out. He says he wants to stop the porn addiction and web sex stuff but doesn't really think he needs counseling to do it. I do think it is going to require some sort of ultimatum from me for him to get the help he needs. I'm not so sure how much he loves me right now, but I do think he loves his daughters enough to stay with me for the next several years until they are adults at least.
The impression I get - you're looking for an out, and are grasping at straws here...
Here's my prediction -
You married a (normal) guy who doesn't know how to hide his internet history. By divorcing him, all you're going to do is jump from him (again - the guy who doesn't know how to hide his internet history..) to a guy who perhaps knows what he is doing, and can better keep it out of your sight.
It doesn't sound like he is a porn addict, rather just partaking in something every guy, at some point in their life, does.
I don't know what "smelling like sex" means - vagina? penis? ***?
But I wouldn't base one fleeting whiff of the "smell of sex" in the air on grounds for divorce.
You talk about never feeling the *spark* with him, - if you're not in love with him (and never have been), then you definitely deserve to seek it out and experience it - but own it, and don't use the "He bought a stripper 15 years ago before we got married!" as the excuse.
Also...sparks die. Finding someone stable, good to you & your kids, generous, working their butts off for you after 14+ years....and still having sex 2-3 times a week.. - is pretty darn good. Finding someone you have that *spark* with is no guarantee you'll find a relationship that good...
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