How many men are really marriage-minded nowadays? (cheater, alcoholism, breakups)
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I have nothing to doubt, since article provides no numbers and you still refuse to see the difference between "college educated" and "well-educated and wealthy". Article says nothing about generic "college educated" cohort as you claim. Simple "being in charge of family budgets" doesn't give women 85% of consumer cash to spend. Men give (foolishly). What do men get as a reward? Yup, marketeers portray us as stupid, helpless almost mentally deficient cartoon characters so women could buy more crap (with our money).
I'd like to see more numbers to back up what you say about 85%. But men could certainly shift the numbers by taking over grocery shopping, picking up their own cold medicine, buy all of the clothing, diapers etc. for the kids. Heck, I know some guys that have the women buy their clothes as well.
Can you address the point that has been made that married women are often making purchases for the entire family. Should they not buy food or clothing for their children?
85% of consumer cash spent by women. Single, divorced, childless, retired.... women who don't make 85% of the national income.
I made very clear point that men (settled with alimony and child support) do better financially after divorce. You cannot explain that away by pointing at 25-30% of women who make purchases for the entire family.
85% of consumer cash spent by women. Single, divorced, childless, retired.... women who don't make 85% of the national income.
I made very clear point that men (settled with alimony and child support) do better financially after divorce. You cannot explain that away by pointing at 25-30% of women who make purchases for the entire family.
I'd be surprised if you can get women (and male marriage supporters) to admit this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123
The real argument here is not marriage vs cohabitation, it's the risk of divorce vs. a non-marriage breakup. Marriage is perfectly fine for men as long as it doesn't end in a devastating divorce.
I think there will be more respect for each sides' positions when marriage supporters accept that the ending of a marriage is just as beneficial to women as the ending of a non-marriage/cohabitation is beneficial to men.
These lopsided benefits are why many men are opting not to marry or taking longer to pull the trigger. It's also why women push for marriage, they know it benefits them more than an unmarried LTR. People respond to incentives, and right now marriage isn't giving men the same incentives it had in the past.
I think young women do want the benefit of marriage. Why would a woman who wanted to raise a family not want the benefit of having a legitimate child as opposed to a bastard child. One of the initial motivations for marriage was to insure legitimacy for inheritance of the father’s name and wealth. Why would she not want some assurance that the child will be taken care of and she be taken care of financially while caring for the child. Seems stupid not to.
What makes you believe divorce is only devastating for men. The majority of women work and contribute as much financially towards assets and living expenses, they have as much invested emotionally in the family and raising of children and upkeep of the home. When it comes down to it, legally married or just cohabitating there are still the same legal issues in a dissolution, child custody and support and separation of assets and debt. The only thing I can see different is that investments and retirement doesn’t enter into the equation.
What are the marriage incentives men had in the past that they do not have today?
You conveniently scrolled past my post. My husband left, moved 1,000 miles away and started a new life. I gave it a year, what, I should still be married 6 years later?
You didn't follow your husband or you were not "invited"? If you haven't followed him, you simply cannot assign 100% of the blame to the guy.
I think young women do want the benefit of marriage. Why would a woman who wanted to raise a family not want the benefit of having a legitimate child as opposed to a bastard child. One of the initial motivations for marriage was to insure legitimacy for inheritance of the father’s name and wealth. Why would she not want some assurance that the child will be taken care of and she be taken care of financially while caring for the child. Seems stupid not to.
What makes you believe divorce is only devastating for men. The majority of women work and contribute as much financially towards assets and living expenses, they have as much invested emotionally in the family and raising of children and upkeep of the home. When it comes down to it, legally married or just cohabitating there are still the same legal issues in a dissolution, child custody and support and separation of assets and debt. The only thing I can see different is that investments and retirement doesn’t enter into the equation.
What are the marriage incentives men had in the past that they do not have today?
85% of consumer cash spent by women. Single, divorced, childless, retired.... women who don't make 85% of the national income.
I made very clear point that men (settled with alimony and child support) do better financially after divorce. You cannot explain that away by pointing at 25-30% of women who make purchases for the entire family.
First, I've already provided numbers that, at minimum, cast doubt upon your numbers.
Second, you seem to oblivious to the fact that much of the cash that women spend is for men. You know, the housewife that buys the groceries that the man eats...for one example
You didn't follow your husband or you were not "invited"? If you haven't followed him, you simply cannot assign 100% of the blame to the guy.
He said, "Good bye, this marriage is over, I am leaving you to move to Hilton Head." Then he rented a u-haul that was not big enough to fill with the contents of a three story house, instead it could only fit the contents of a future bachelor pad. He took the dog too, and had all mail forwarded. Then he got a new girlfriend.
Physical and/or psychological abuse
Heavy drinking
Drug abuse
Cheating
Mistreatment of the children
Controlling and demanding
Mental illness
Choosing not to get help for any of the above
I think few people divorce on a whimsy. I certainly didn't.
There is no point to a marriage with this list. Basically any trouble and you are out. Drug abuse is illness. Heavy drinking is illness. Neither drug abuse nor drinking just pop up out of nowhere on the 2nd year of marriage. You just can't hide those predispositions. Why marry in the first place? If it's something (rare) that developed during a marriage - suck it up to the end. "Cheating" - OK. "Mistreatment of children" - is rather a philosophical and loosely defined, it could be little more than different approaches to raising them. "Controlling and demanding" is so loose, it can mean anything. "Mental illness" is illness covered by "till death us do part". "Choosing not to get help" for something that's poorly defined = my way or highway. Why marry with that attitude?
There is no point to a marriage with this list. Basically any trouble and you are out. Drug abuse is illness. Heavy drinking is illness. Neither drug abuse nor drinking just pop up out of nowhere on the 2nd year of marriage. You just can't hide those predispositions. Why marry in the first place? If it's something (rare) that developed during a marriage - suck it up to the end. "Cheating" - OK. "Mistreatment of children" - is rather a philosophical and loosely defined, it could be little more than different approaches to raising them. "Controlling and demanding" is so loose, it can mean anything. "Mental illness" is illness covered by "till death us do part". "Choosing not to get help" for something that's poorly defined = my way or highway. Why marry with that attitude?
So a man or a woman should never have the option of divorcing an alcoholic that won't get help?
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