How many men are really marriage-minded nowadays? (dance, dependent, educated)
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It does seem that way, but that's the way the law regards it.
I did acknowledge the law in the previous post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty2011
I imagine if you don't agree to it, you can go to court or mediation and see if that gets you further.
My remedy is to avoid signing a marriage license, and avoid cohabitation in a state that has common law marriage statutes that can kick in automatically. It's much easier than hoping for the best in court or mediation, plus we can create our own agreements and still have a ceremony without the state being involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty2011
Nothing about divorce is fair, but in our situation, it pretty much evens out in the end, whether we like it or not.
I'm less likely to be in your "evens out" situation, as I have much more to lose in a divorce vs the average couple. I'm glad that works for you, the problem is having a law like that doesn't work for everyone, which you acknowledge in "nothing about divorce is fair" statement. I prefer to create my own contracts and agreements that ARE fair. Nothing against what you decided to do, just my preference.
No the predisposition for alcoholism can't always be predicted in advance.
Do you think kids should be subjected to an alcoholic parent that won't get help? Or would that be an okay reason to divorce?
First, women hell bent on the need to get a divorce tend to multiply any perceived problem by a factor of 10 as the very least (usually it's 100). I'd be not surprised that drinking a couple of beers every Saturday would be declared as "alcoholism" by some divorce minded Janes, anticipating (much) better things on the post-divorce horizon. Second, there is no way no how one could not notice heavy drinking propensity, physical abuse "potential" or severe "control" issues. There is NO way a regular person can miss that. It's not that women don't see those things, they see it and they love what they see. After all, heavy drinking could mean also easygoing fun, physical violence and rage issues could be interpreted as a manly manniness (i.e. an extra protection against outside world), control issues - take charge go getter who's doomed to climb the corporate ladder (those are just examples of possible interpretations). Women love men like that expecting that man' aggression will be always contained, directed outside (while fun and cuddliness inside) and put to good u$e. It's when a man fails to utilize his drunken easygoing wit, take charge attitude and/or aggression to reach those star$, he's declared to be "a jerk" who fooled an innocent, unsuspecting female into marrying him.
Most of the time, women see a few attractive things about a male and embark on the home improvement project to rebuild their men according to their blueprints. It never works. So, girls, leave the stories about your "naivete" for a jury or something . You saw what you were buying, nothing was hidden and you've made an intelligent bet on that man. Have integrity to take full responsibility for your conscious decisions, and don't treat him as a disposable wipe because you guessed it wrong.
What is an "alcoholic parent"? That's not that clear cut, especially when a woman really wants a divorce. If you've mothered a child with that "alcoholic" parent, there is no (as in NO) sober man in the entire world who would love your child more. When you leave that "alcoholic parent", children are the last things on your mind.
Last edited by RememberMee; 01-10-2013 at 11:24 PM..
On the average, the percentages of divorces initiated by women is approximately 75%, among college-educated couples, the percentages of divorces initiated by women is approximately 90%. Let's "analyze" the percentages of divorces initiated by women in the light of the famous 50-50 doctrine. Let's assume that men and women are equally responsible for all the "factors" leading to a divorce.
What do those numbers mean? Despite cosmic shifts in the gender roles rendering an average woman less than reliable (and helpful) mate, men tend to stick with their marriage vows. An average married man is 3 times more forgiving, understanding, accepting, reliable, etc. than an average married woman. An average college educated man is 10 (TEN) times more forgiving, understanding, accepting, reliable, etc. mate than an average college educated woman. In the light of these numbers, the proper title of this topic should sound something like " Why many men are marriage-minded nowadays? What's wrong with them?".
Last edited by RememberMee; 01-10-2013 at 11:40 PM..
On the average, the percentages of divorces initiated by women is approximately 75%, among college-educated couples, the percentages of divorces initiated by women is approximately 90%. Let's "analyze" the percentages of divorces initiated by women in the light of the famous 50-50 doctrine. Let's assume that men an women are equally responsible for all the "factors" leading to a divorce.
What do those numbers mean? Despite cosmic shifts in the gender roles rendering an average woman less than reliable (and helpful) mate, men tend to stick with their marriage vows. An average married man is 3 times more forgiving, understanding, accepting, reliable, etc. than an average married woman. An average college educated man is 10 (TEN) times more forgiving, understanding, accepting, reliable, etc. mate than an average college educated woman. In the light of these numbers, the proper title of this topic should sound something like " Why many men are marriage-minded nowadays? What's wrong with them?".
Just because someone files, does not mean they're the one who initiated the divorce.
I've mentioned my friend whose ex husband gave her hpv/herpes, and SHE'S the one who initiated the divorce and did the paperwork even though he was the one who ruined the marriage.
Most men simply aren't organized enough to actually go down and file paperwork, it's the women who do that. When my Grandparents got divorced, it was my Grandmother who did the paperwork and initiated it, even though my Grandfather was the one who requested the divorce. With my aunt and uncle, my aunt was the one, again, who filled out and filed the paperwork even though it was my Uncle who wanted the divorce.
Just because someone files, does not mean they're the one who initiated the divorce.
I've mentioned my friend whose ex husband gave her hpv/herpes, and SHE'S the one who initiated the divorce and did the paperwork even though he was the one who ruined the marriage.
My explicit premise was 50-50 (women love 50-50, don't you all?), men and women are equally responsible for all the factors leading to and initiating a divorce. I guess in a case of the divorce, women liberation cause would be much better served by 75-25 and 90-10 doctrines. As in - "an average college educated male is much less organized than an average college educated female. An average college educated male is 10 times more likely to initiate the divorce but he lacks mental faculties and organization to follow through".
Most men are not "organized" in the same way as women are "organized", we do and organize things differently, it doesn't mean that we lack organization.
My explicit premise was 50-50 (women love 50-50, don't you all?), men and women are equally responsible for all the factors leading to and initiating a divorce. I guess in a case of the divorce, women liberation cause would be much better served by 75-25 and 90-10 doctrines. As in - "an average college educated male is much less organized than an average college educated female. An average college educated male is 10 times more likely to initiate the divorce but he lacks mental faculties and organization to follow through".
Most men are not "organized" in the same way as women are "organized", we do and organize things differently, it doesn't mean that we lack organization.
So, if the reasons for divorce are agreed upon by both parties, then how is the woman more at fault, which was basically your original premise?
You can't say both parties are 50-50 then turn around and say men are more marriage minded and that women are the ones requesting the divorces.
From my purely anecdotal experience, the women I've known that have been divorced are the ones that have to do the paperwork, even when it was their husbands requesting the divorce.
On the average, the percentages of divorces initiated by women is approximately 75%, among college-educated couples, the percentages of divorces initiated by women is approximately 90%. Let's "analyze" the percentages of divorces initiated by women in the light of the famous 50-50 doctrine. Let's assume that men and women are equally responsible for all the "factors" leading to a divorce.
What do those numbers mean? Despite cosmic shifts in the gender roles rendering an average woman less than reliable (and helpful) mate, men tend to stick with their marriage vows. An average married man is 3 times more forgiving, understanding, accepting, reliable, etc. than an average married woman. An average college educated man is 10 (TEN) times more forgiving, understanding, accepting, reliable, etc. mate than an average college educated woman. In the light of these numbers, the proper title of this topic should sound something like " Why many men are marriage-minded nowadays? What's wrong with them?".
I would disagree. As JJ said, the one who files may not be the one who wanted out or initiated it. They may have simply accepted that the relationship has changed against their wishes and the other party will not try to repair it. They may have realized their spouse simply will not stop cheating. They may have been abused.
As important as it is for women to get married in the first place to the man they love, it is just as important to not be married to the man they don't love. They want their marital status to reflect their situation.
On the other hand, I don't think men care as much. They are content to live together unmarried with the woman they love and content to live apart as a single while married to the woman they now hate. I've known men that even considered it a plus. They get to live as a single bachelor. Being "legally" married may be baggage that deters some women but there's plenty that will ignore that if they like the man. And what better way for a guy to avoid getting remarried than to already be married? The guy has a built-in "out" with his future relationships with girlfriends. Being "separated" is the ideal situation for a man.
It seems to me this has turned into a 'men shouldn't get married because all women are gold diggers' thread.
Let's be fair here kids. BOTH genders are unfairly being judged and bashed in this thread. BOTH genders are getting painted with a single brush and irrationally demeaned with each additional post. There's a whole lot of bitterness being thrown around here.
The fact of the matter is that mature adults capable of an emotionally satisfying relationship would never make such unjustified, brash statements about the opposite gender. Why? Because mature adults LOVE the other gender and do not project their negative judgment of one or two individuals onto the opposite half of the world's population.
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