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And that is not you complaining, it is fact and the dust relocation was making his efforts pointless. That is why I like getting the cleaning tips from "experts" on Youtube or whatever, it isn't personal if you've been doing it wrong, it's more like self-improvement. It does help if we women can admit to also needing improvements and learning.
I guess something I hate is having to go over something that someone has done, unless they are new at it and learning. I like when I can trust someone to do something without me micromanaging- knowing I don't have to think about it when I already have a full plate. Just to know he's got it, that's the best feeling. It's just been a problem in my life being close to many incompetent people who would be in trouble, with things worse than dust, if I didn't help them, watch them, do the stuff they should be able to do for themselves.
My TikTok is loaded with cleaning tips and hacks, I LOVE to learn how to do stuff better and/or faster.
I just cleaned the filter in my dishwasher (did not know it existed), and will be doing the one in the washing machine next (did not know it existed either).
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Seriously, if someone behaves like that whether woman or man, it's an intimidation tactic whether they realize it or not.
Compromise and thinking before speaking is the best way. Or not speaking at all. That's what I'm currently doing.
There's a woman who comes into the store I work at. She dresses abominally, like in very short stretchy short shorts, with a stretchy tank top that sags and reveals everything, and old flip flops. Her husband (or partner) rides a motorized shopping cart. All she ever does is make faces like she's so disgusted with him, and sometimes she makes negative comments within my earshot while walking away and making him do all the work. I don't see the guy doing anything wrong. Clearly, she is very unhappy and needs a bigtime attitude adjustment. Don't think she will though. Some people aren't happy unless they're unhappy. I feel very sad for her and especially him. Maybe he's no prize, but she isn't either with that attitude and behavior!
My current girlfriend is much more organized than me, but I also have had roomates who were total slobs. There is a part of your brain referred to as the reticular activating system (RAS) and it controls what you do and don't pay attention to. With the roomate who was the slob, he just never put anything away. Dirty clothes were always left on the floor and clean clothes were always left on his bed or the couch after he came back from the laundry mat. But his RAS just didn't see nor notice this clutter.
My current girlfriend is far more organized than me. In my bathroom at my place, I don't leave clutter lying around but in the drawers under my sink, I have always just kind of piled eveything on top of each other, but at my girlfriends place there are these little baskets under the sink for bathroom cleaning supplies and another basket for extra hand towels. Her RAS is just a lot more sensitive than mine.
In addition to that though the average women's baseline levels of disgust sensitivity are much higher than the average males baseline level of disgust sensivity. So if the bathroom isn't clean, that is just a bigger deal for most women than most men because they are more grossed out by things that many guys may not even be noticing.
Here is the thing, it is way more stressful to be the person with the RAS with the higher level of sensitivity. You are noticing all of this clutter and it really does bother you.
So for the sake of my girlfriend, I actually took the time, to try to rearrange my life to live up to her higher standard of organization. I actually went out and bought some baskets like she has under her sink at her place and I started really trying to keep my place as tidy as her's. Sometimes you really do need to make some extra efforts for the sake of the relationship.
Hey, Shelato! Good to see you!
After reading all these comments, I have a question: At what point does "effort" become "extra"?
I'm sure you've read about some men who seem to believe that if they empty a dishwasher, they're making and "extra" effort. Meanwhile, *I* would empty my dishwasher every day. I don't see my effort as "extra" but normal.
Sounds like a couple of things are happening here.
The main issue sounds like there needs to be a division of labor in the home. Set chores for the couple.
I do understand the point being made here that OP feels he's "helping out" so she shouldn't be criticizing if it's not to her liking.
A close friend of mine said she and her husband have specific lists of chores they do daily/weekly, she said it works out great.
If a couple is either married or living together, then no one is helping out, meaning the husband/boyfriend doesn't need to be acknowledged because he did basic chores in the home, saying he's helping out.
A couple needs to be a team and support each other.
This would be yet another reason why I'd advise younger people who are new to living with partners, to take their time in particular before having kids.
Because for the most part...a couple where the ability/knowhow of how to do a good job of cleaning, or the give a F factor of it, are out of sync...if the less clean of the two is at least not a total slob, they can find a way to get on.
But when you bring kids, or pets, or both, into the equation... A little bit of regular work can quickly turn into a mountain of labor. All of the normal stuff...trash, dishes, laundry...multiplies. Diapers, dog walking, cat box scooping...puke, shed fur, just ALL OF IT. If you think it's tough to figure out the right way to load the dishwasher when it's just the two of you, then holy hell...you don't need to make it more complicated just yet.
I really only have one thing I wish my husband did a better job of. Keeping his bathroom clean. And the thing is...when I was a kid (10-12) my Stepmom came into my life and she made me do the chore of cleaning 2 out of 3 of the bathrooms in our home every weekend. I hated it. I may have referred to her, behind her back, as "Hitler" because of this. I am not proud of that. If I did a bad job, she made me do it all over again. She would inspect, and it had to be perfect.
But y'know what? I know how to clean a bathroom. To where it is actually clean. I know when it needs doing, and how quickly it will get worse if it's not done, and how much worse it can eventually get. I know that if it's done right once and then done a quick wipe down once every week or two, it will never be a matter of hours of hard scrubbing and chemical warfare to deal with what happens when you neglect it. I know this stuff, and I know it because of her. (And yes, I've thanked her since and apologized for being such a brat.)
I'm very certain that no one ever taught my husband how to properly clean a bathroom. So once in a while, I've got to go clean his bathroom for him, because it would get pretty awful if I don't, and I do wish I didn't have to...but not enough to yell at him about it. One day I'm gonna hire somebody to clean the bathrooms...and maybe also the floors. And the microwave. Anyways when that day comes, that's when I will know that we've "made it."
After what I've been through in life and relationships, I seriously feel like if this is the worst of my problems, I've got it pretty good.
Last edited by Sonic_Spork; 09-16-2022 at 01:22 PM..
After reading all these comments, I have a question: At what point does "effort" become "extra"?
I'm sure you've read about some men who seem to believe that if they empty a dishwasher, they're making and "extra" effort. Meanwhile, *I* would empty my dishwasher every day. I don't see my effort as "extra" but normal.
So, what say you?
Right, and expectations have to be agreed on. Like, if it's his job to clean the kitchen after dinner, and for him that means rising the dishes and putting them in the dishwasher, but for her that means the dishes, plus wiping down the counters, sweeping the floor, and taking the trash out, that needs to be talked about.
After reading all these comments, I have a question: At what point does "effort" become "extra"?
I'm sure you've read about some men who seem to believe that if they empty a dishwasher, they're making and "extra" effort. Meanwhile, *I* would empty my dishwasher every day. I don't see my effort as "extra" but normal.
So, what say you?
It is always good hearing from you as well Mink!.
Left to my own devices my level of what I would be happy with in terms of order and clutter isn't the same as my girlfriends. She is much more organized than I am. So the choice is how shall we live live, are we going to live as organized and decluttered as her standard or as disorganized and more cluttered as mine?
The 'extra' effort here that I am referring to is taking the time to actually organize things to that standard of care that normally wouldn't actually bother me, but does actually bug her. So there is a certain amont of me retraining myself to intentionally try to pay attention to things that I never worried about or really paid attention to before.
I think it is way more stressful to be the person who is just more organized. Living in what you percieve to be a mess really does effect people. I remember that from when I lived with the slob roommate and how annoyed I was with this mess.
Left to my own devices my level of what I would be happy with in terms of order and clutter isn't the same as my girlfriends. She is much more organized than I am. So the choice is how shall we live live, are we going to live as organized and decluttered as her standard or as disorganized and more cluttered as mine?
The 'extra' effort here that I am referring to is taking the time to actually organize things to that standard of care that normally wouldn't actually bother me, but does actually bug her. So there is a certain amont of me retraining myself to intentionally try to pay attention to things that I never worried about or really paid attention to before.
I think it is way more stressful to be the person who is just more organized. Living in what you percieve to be a mess really does effect people. I remember that from when I lived with the slob roommate and how annoyed I was with this mess.
I can deal with clutter. I do prefer some organization rather than chaos, but neither my husband nor I will ever be minimalists. We like to collect things.
What bothers me is filth. Like, because some of the worst times of my life I was just overwhelmed with levels of filth I could not begin to keep up with, and some of which was way out of my control, on top of a lot of other traumatic crap going on...it's legit bad for my mental health. Physical health, too, probably.
But I don't mind keeping the kitchen clean. Do it every day while my coffee is brewing. It's almost like with it being so routine and first thing in the morning, my brain isn't even awake enough to complain about it. It's invisible time. It just happens. Bathrooms though. I HATE cleaning bathrooms. Especially the tub/shower. I know it needs done, but I admit sometimes I put it off. Not to like, biohazard levels, or what I call "chemical warfare" levels, but a little more than I'd prefer if I were fully on top of my game, to my own standards. Those are the most filth-prone areas, in my opinion. Not much else seems like a huge deal, other than pet-chores which I just do as needed, but the cat is my cat, so...
My best friend, that I stayed with while visiting CO, says she is the opposite, she doesn't mind bathrooms but hates doing the dishes. I tried to do the dishes to help out once though, and she got really upset with me. Because I pre-wash some, just to get the worst of whatever food off the dishes, then put them in the dishwasher to be...washed...sanitized. But she thinks that is a waste of water, and she washes them by hand but puts dishes in the dishwasher just to dry and doesn't run it. I was like, "you do what?" She was mad that I'd put dishes that weren't REALLY washed, in her dishwasher, where only clean dishes should be put.
After that I was like, you know...I don't want to mess with your system. It was the one time I had sympathy for guys who may have legit wanted to help, and got yelled at for not doing something another person's specific way.
Sounds like a couple of things are happening here.
The main issue sounds like there needs to be a division of labor in the home. Set chores for the couple.
I do understand the point being made here that OP feels he's "helping out" so she shouldn't be criticizing if it's not to her liking.
A close friend of mine said she and her husband have specific lists of chores they do daily/weekly, she said it works out great.
If a couple is either married or living together, then no one is helping out, meaning the husband/boyfriend doesn't need to be acknowledged because he did basic chores in the home, saying he's helping out.
A couple needs to be a team and support each other.
Personal information. Wife and I are in our 50s and met when we were in our mid 30s. By that time I had already served 8 years in the Navy and lived alone. Wife saw how I maintained my home prior to our marriage. Wife has had multiple spinal surgeries and both knees replaced before she turned 50. I wash, fold, and hang my own laundry. I help to fold the sheets and put fresh sheets on the bed. Things were easier for us at our previous home because it was a 14 x 48 mobile home and our current home is traditional concrete slab brick home with double the square footing with wood floors. It’s taken time for me to get her to understand that I don’t see the floor is dirty at the same level she does and that if she sees it’s at the point she feels it needs to be cleaned then she could politely ask me to clean the floor for her. Before she would get very angry, do it herself angrily, and suffer in pain for days. If I tried to take the cleaning upon myself at that point then she would get even more angry and refuse to hand over the cleaning supplies. She knows I can do some basic cooking because I’ve cooked meals for her when we were dating but she feels more comfortable doing the cooking herself. So,e times when she doesn’t feel up to it she’ll ask me to cook for her. I regularly do dishes. For her sake I wipe the dishes dry and put them away. What I refuse to do is use a quarter cup of dishwashing detergent per sink. I use roughly a tablespoon of dishwashing detergent. She believes the more soap foam, the cleaner the dishes. I also help with dusting since I don’t want her on the step ladder cleaning ceiling fan blades. I only dust with a dusting spray and microfiber cloth. I start with ceiling fans and then work my way down shelving surfaces. I leave the tables and entertainment center for her unless she ask I do them for her. She says she doesn’t want to feel useless. I praise her for cooking, I thank her for things she does around the house, and in random moments I thank her for taking care of things around the house and finances. But there are times I do something on my own without her asking and her first mention of what I did was to find fault with how I did it.
Not saying all women do this but I’ve know some women who do this. Their partner (husband or boyfriend) does some household chore and instead of positive recognition, the lady finds fault with how it was done. Does dishes, he didn’t use enough dishwashing liquid. Did dishes, but he didn’t also dry and put away dishes. Swept the floor, but he missed these spaces. Mopped the floor, but he didn’t do it right. Vacuumed the rug, but he didn’t do it right. Dusting furniture and shelves, but you missed this or didn’t do it the way “I do it”. With all this negative feedback is it any wonder the boyfriend or husband stops trying?
Is this something you learned from how your mom treated your dad? Have you ever considered positive feedback first and then asking politely for them to do it differently next time? Have you ever considered being thankful he made the effort to help out?
Your examples are subjective. When you say, 'did the dishes', were they actually clean, or was their nasty food still left on them?
Swept the floor...one sweep of the broom, or just missed a corner? Same with mopping. Same with vacuuming.
Genuine effort, yes, you thank the person for doing it, no matter if it isn't exactly the way you would do it.
If it's clearly someone is doing a half arsed job just to say, 'See, I did something', they knowing good and well they did a half arse job...what is there to praise?
And when you come home, and the house is all nice and clean, do you thank her? Or do you just take it for granted?
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