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Guess what I mean when I say "equality"? I mean it. It goes for all genders in all aspects of relationship. Heck, I would even tell a guy friend or relative to get his ass in the kitchen and help out after we enjoyed a nice dinner. I do it and see no problem at all. I am all for men helping in house chores: dishes, cooking, grocery shopping, mopping, and so on. I am all for that as much as I am for women romancing their guy, taking him out for dinner/wine, offering chivalry, proposing marriage, and so on. Women will be more than happy to have men helping with house chores but will they be as happy offering what I mentioned or is that a "man's/gentleman's job"?
How nice of you to assign all housework to women so you can HELP and be the "big buy". Guess what, if you live there, it's your job to SHARE those chores. My husband wouldn't dream of helping me; he just does what needs to be done.
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Originally Posted by betamanlet
Lots of ex cons are poor and still get women. If they are bad boys, a poor guy can get women.
Oh brother! Here we go again. YOU can't get a woman and have somehow attributed your lack of success to you not being a "bad boy" - well that ain't so, whineyboy. THAT's the reason - you whine, constantly and about EVERYthing.
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Originally Posted by forest beekeeper
Thanks for that last bit. I have been married since 1981.
As such I have been discussing single men that I know. At least one of them is sometimes very depressed about his lack of a mate.
When you say: "Men can also improve their appearance to a large extent. They just choose not to" I must ask, how? Plastic surgery?
A particular friend in mind 'Steve' has no tattoos; no metal objects exhibited; no as@ is hanging out. He is clean shaven, wears clean clothing, and bathes daily.
He has a good job [he repairs and upgrades movie theaters, for years he had a region of California which included about 1/4 of that state, so it has been a tie and slacks profession. Now his employer has him bouncing around the nation, five cities each week, doing upgrades on cinemas.] He has built custom theaters all over the world [including Europe and Asia] whenever actors have gotten involved and wanted a fully upgraded theater for new releases, or private showings of new movies.
Steve is not filthy; he speaks proper English; he has no college degree, but he does have a long list of technical certificates. His 'problem' is he has a very loving and caring heart; if he sees a single mom with a broke-down vehicle he takes responsibility to get the vehicle fixed, and once he gets drawn into a females web of influence, he cares a great deal about the children and in so doing he will buy food and stock their kitchen with food and new appliances. New TVs, electronic games, and clothing [for school]. He can not help himself from becoming a 'sugar daddy' if there are children going 'without'. Since we graduated highschool in '77; Steve has gone through this cycle many times. Each time it lasts until the single mom finds a boyfriend, which hurts Steve very badly, and he will back out from the situation.
Having known Steve since highschool, and having seen him go through these Sugar Daddy relationships many times [each of which commonly will set him back $10k]. He gets hurt so much each time, that I feel badly for him.
There is no plastic surgery that I can think of which would make Steve any more attractive. But clearly he radiates 'relationship loser' to every female that sees him.
At 51 life seems cruel at times for a virgin like Steve.
This story invoked my compassion - but I have learned to control it. Part of me wanted to run up to Maine bringing a single friend in tow. But that's not going to stop his pattern because she's not needy or a user. He needs to figure out why he ONLY hooks up with those who are in need and why he gives of his resources when he gets nothing in return. He has a good heart but his mind goes on vacation.
Thanks for that last bit. I have been married since 1981.
As such I have been discussing single men that I know. At least one of them is sometimes very depressed about his lack of a mate.
When you say: "Men can also improve their appearance to a large extent. They just choose not to" I must ask, how? Plastic surgery?
A particular friend in mind 'Steve' has no tattoos; no metal objects exhibited; no as@ is hanging out. He is clean shaven, wears clean clothing, and bathes daily.
He has a good job [he repairs and upgrades movie theaters, for years he had a region of California which included about 1/4 of that state, so it has been a tie and slacks profession. Now his employer has him bouncing around the nation, five cities each week, doing upgrades on cinemas.] He has built custom theaters all over the world [including Europe and Asia] whenever actors have gotten involved and wanted a fully upgraded theater for new releases, or private showings of new movies.
Steve is not filthy; he speaks proper English; he has no college degree, but he does have a long list of technical certificates. His 'problem' is he has a very loving and caring heart; if he sees a single mom with a broke-down vehicle he takes responsibility to get the vehicle fixed, and once he gets drawn into a females web of influence, he cares a great deal about the children and in so doing he will buy food and stock their kitchen with food and new appliances. New TVs, electronic games, and clothing [for school]. He can not help himself from becoming a 'sugar daddy' if there are children going 'without'. Since we graduated highschool in '77; Steve has gone through this cycle many times. Each time it lasts until the single mom finds a boyfriend, which hurts Steve very badly, and he will back out from the situation.
Having known Steve since highschool, and having seen him go through these Sugar Daddy relationships many times [each of which commonly will set him back $10k]. He gets hurt so much each time, that I feel badly for him.
There is no plastic surgery that I can think of which would make Steve any more attractive. But clearly he radiates 'relationship loser' to every female that sees him.
At 51 life seems cruel at times for a virgin like Steve.
I didn't mean plastic surgery at all. I was talking about better clothes, better haircut, etc. If one is clueless in this department, there are shoppers and stylists to be hired for some advice. Friends can help, too. It's amazing how taking pride in one's appearance and looking good changes the way one carries oneself! I notice this every time men who normally dress pretty sloppily clean up for an occasion.
It doesn't sound like your friend's problem is his appearance necessarily, though. Looks like she just fishes the bottom of the barrel because he doesn't think he deserves better. He evidently has personality and self-worth issues more than looks issue.
The question is WHY? Isn't it because of the general belief that a woman's life is worthless unless a man validates it?
You tell me. It is not me who tells women to start dreaming about their wedding day, proposal day, the day a man comes in his steed to take her in his arms and back to his castle, dreaming as they enjoy another chickflick, etc.
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So basically the philosophy is, it's okay to hate women because women hate men?
Nope, the philosophy is that women can say what they prefer in a relationship, say that men are dogs and just want sex, etc. And people won't say a single thing. Have a guy dare himself say how he would like a relationship to be and he is seen as a villain even after he has said that a woman's preference is not either good or bad, but still has his preferences. Gets insulted and even bad mouthed about his family. It's pretty much like women telling men that only they can be right and whoever dares himself to disagree will have fingers pointed at him.
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If that's it, than I can only reiterate the wonderful advice that's already been given to you: stay away from women
Tell that to the woman who was complaining because she got a silver ring and not an expensive golden ring, among others who start other threads. Imagine a guy complaining because his woman made chicken soup instead of filet mignon. Wouldn't that be oh so terrible because the complain would come from a man?
Stay away from women? Thanks for the advise. I just stay away from women who are not my type when it comes to something that involves more than just friendship or hooking up. They are rare, but its quite pleasant to find them and see how we are both comfortable with each other.
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Also, I hate to ask for sources, but since I honestly haven't come across those threads supposedly bashing men, that you are referring to, could you please provide links
Just look at the thread about that girl who complained because she didn't get an expensive gift. I think that one was titled "Ex girlfriend" or something, not sure. Just go through almost any thread and whenever women say something about men, nobody says a thing. Have a guy answer back in the same manner and that's when it becomes "wrong" to do that.
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I am sure you can stand up for yourself. I did not call you names or talk about your family -- so I don't see how you can pin it on women as a gender
Other women did and did you say anybody tell her that it was wrong to try that in a simple debate? Nope, not a single person. Yet, when I talk how its fine for women to have their preference and how I don't see it as good or bad, I get bashed by women for having a preference that in the end it benefits BOTH genders.
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Well, your preferences are private. Nevertheless, the reason that you so strenuously broadcast them, is that you apparently want others to acknowledge their value beyond the personal
This is a forum where people will post their opinion. Some will agree, some will disagree, and life goes on. You normally will see the same people in similar topics standing in their opinion.
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What does it mean, being "on the receiving end"? Of what, a $50 meal?
Look at the dynamics of dating. Specially with the whole rule of date #1. But it doesn't have to be just date #1 really. What do you see? Guy approaches a woman, starts a conversation, asks for her phone number which she can simply not give it to him, asks her out, picks her up, takes her out for dinner or whatever, take her back home, end of date. All she had to do is show up. I repeat, if that is what that couple in particular likes to do, good for them, that is their preference. It is not good/bad really. But as for me, I prefer something else. See, I am not insulting those who enjoy that or clapping at them. It is simply not my preference.
What is chivalry about? Another custom that women enjoy and many times require a man to do or they won't see a 2nd date. A custom where they also get to be in the receiving end.
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Frankly, the idea that "most women" spread their legs for that is deeply offensive, and it's completely false
The idea that men just want sex and are dogs can be offensive as well. Yet, nobody jumps in to say something.
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Expecting a reciprocation of equal monetary value every time you do something for someone you supposedly love smacks of "issues" I can't even begin to describe
The examples that I mentioned about chivalry in another thread do not require a single penny to do and women love it. Hey! I find it pleasant too when a woman offers chivalry to me. I shared a few experiences where women have done it for me . Do women feel appreciated, honored, valued, and so on with it? Well, me too when I do that, which I am used way before I started dating, but also when a woman treats me with that same honor/respect.
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Strict equality as you have described it doesn't mean you "help" with something -- it means you do exactly 50%. Good luck quantifying it.
Call it "help", call it "do", women still don't like the idea of it anyways. I'll stick to the same thing that things shouldn't be labelled "a man's job" or a "woman's job".
NYAnnie,
Ok, as I said in the paragraph above. Call it whatever you want and I will still support the idea that house chores should be done/dealt with/helped/executed/etc. whatever you want to call it BY BOTH. I find it totally wrong for a man to live in a house and not do anything to help/execute/do/share/be involved/whatever you want to call it, with house chores. Well, I find it as bad for women not to contribute to expenses as much as men, offer chivalry, propose marriage with ring and all, help with home improvement, romance/woo their guy, send him something to his office, etc. All those things that women consider "a gentleman's/man's job...something a man/gentleman does to show me I am worth it, to show me he's serious..."
Thanks for that last bit. I have been married since 1981.
As such I have been discussing single men that I know. At least one of them is sometimes very depressed about his lack of a mate.
When you say: "Men can also improve their appearance to a large extent. They just choose not to" I must ask, how? Plastic surgery?
A particular friend in mind 'Steve' has no tattoos; no metal objects exhibited; no as@ is hanging out. He is clean shaven, wears clean clothing, and bathes daily.
He has a good job [he repairs and upgrades movie theaters, for years he had a region of California which included about 1/4 of that state, so it has been a tie and slacks profession. Now his employer has him bouncing around the nation, five cities each week, doing upgrades on cinemas.] He has built custom theaters all over the world [including Europe and Asia] whenever actors have gotten involved and wanted a fully upgraded theater for new releases, or private showings of new movies.
Steve is not filthy; he speaks proper English; he has no college degree, but he does have a long list of technical certificates. His 'problem' is he has a very loving and caring heart; if he sees a single mom with a broke-down vehicle he takes responsibility to get the vehicle fixed, and once he gets drawn into a females web of influence, he cares a great deal about the children and in so doing he will buy food and stock their kitchen with food and new appliances. New TVs, electronic games, and clothing [for school]. He can not help himself from becoming a 'sugar daddy' if there are children going 'without'. Since we graduated highschool in '77; Steve has gone through this cycle many times. Each time it lasts until the single mom finds a boyfriend, which hurts Steve very badly, and he will back out from the situation.
Having known Steve since highschool, and having seen him go through these Sugar Daddy relationships many times [each of which commonly will set him back $10k]. He gets hurt so much each time, that I feel badly for him.
There is no plastic surgery that I can think of which would make Steve any more attractive. But clearly he radiates 'relationship loser' to every female that sees him.
At 51 life seems cruel at times for a virgin like Steve.
Steve is a beta male. Women would rather be with a serial killer who is on death row than be with a beta male.
There was this girl here starting a thread complaining because his guy was going to give her a silver ring instead of a golden one. Don't remember anybody telling her she was having the wrong attitude.
Read it again. Almost everyone said that she had the wrong attitude.
Read it again. Almost everyone said that she had the wrong attitude.
I recall another topic where women would say they would never date a male nurse because of what other people might think, and that they didn't think that was a manly profession. I don't recall any comments about her having the wrong attitude, but I recall being insulted for not agreeing with her.
Just look at the thread about that girl who complained because she didn't get an expensive gift. I think that one was titled "Ex girlfriend" or something, not sure. Just go through almost any thread and whenever women say something about men, nobody says a thing. Have a guy answer back in the same manner and that's when it becomes "wrong" to do that.
IIRC, many of us jumped on her for that. She is being shallow and ungrateful. Should we castrate her also? Just as there are men who only want sex (true), there are women who only want a sugar-daddy. I can't stop those idiots from breathing air that should be reserved for those who have substance any more than you can. So sad, too bad.
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Originally Posted by onihC
The idea that men just want sex and are dogs can be offensive as well. Yet, nobody jumps in to say something.
Just let a woman say that she wants a friend with benefits and she's labeled as a horrible human being. Look, men can be dogs but most of them (and I've known a LOT in my almost 61 years) are just as nice as most of the women. See my paragraph above about those air suckers who should stop.
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Originally Posted by onihC
Call it "help", call it "do", women still don't like the idea of it anyways. I'll stick to the same thing that things shouldn't be labelled "a man's job" or a "woman's job".
NYAnnie,
Ok, as I said in the paragraph above. Call it whatever you want and I will still support the idea that house chores should be done/dealt with/helped/executed/etc. whatever you want to call it BY BOTH. I find it totally wrong for a man to live in a house and not do anything to help/execute/do/share/be involved/whatever you want to call it, with house chores.
Kudos to you. I think that's all women expect - an acknowledgment that everyone who lives in the house is responsible for its condition - whether it's cleaning or repairing.
Well, I find it as bad for women not to contribute to expenses as much as men, offer chivalry, propose marriage with ring and all, help with home improvement, romance/woo their guy, send him something to his office, etc. All those things that women consider "a gentleman's/man's job...something a man/gentleman does to show me I am worth it, to show me he's serious..."[/quote]
You're mixing up stuff. If a woman becomes a SAHM, she IS contributing to expenses, by LOWERING them. She is giving up opportunities in the work world for advancement, ergo reducing her social security and/or pension benefits. She is doing it for her children (regardless whether you agree/disagree with stay-at-home parenting). She is also reducing the family's tax liabilities which are not 100% offset by childcare expenses. And THAT is contributing FINANCIALLY.
Personally I would resent it if I were not permitted to share in the home maintenance, whether it was cleaning or repair or improvement. I've done it all from changing out sinks or hanging wallpaper (which I love to do) to replacing master brake cylinders. And I'm not alone. There ARE many women like me - who don't ascribe to the men's vs women's work.
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Originally Posted by betamanlet
Steve is a beta male. Women would rather be with a serial killer who is on death row than be with a beta male.
This ^^ is why you are single. It has little to do with your height or beta vs alpha: it has EVERYTHING to do with your attitude.
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Originally Posted by JustJulia
Read it again. Almost everyone said that she had the wrong attitude.
I recall another topic where women would say they would never date a male nurse because of what other people might think, and that they didn't think that was a manly profession. I don't recall any comments about her having the wrong attitude, but I recall being insulted for not agreeing with her.
If you're talking about this thread, which you started--
I recall another topic where women would say they would never date a male nurse because of what other people might think, and that they didn't think that was a manly profession. I don't recall any comments about her having the wrong attitude, but I recall being insulted for not agreeing with her.
I seriously believe you are farked up. Maybe one person said that and 4000 disagreed, but of course you'll remember the one.
I think it become easier for both when they realize they have to settle for each other and cant get an attractive partner..
Im at 30 and never been in a relationship...If i i lowered my standards[which believe me arent that high] i could probaby be in one right now but id rather be alone the rest of my life then be with someobdy i have no physical attraction to at all but went with becasue its my "league" or its all i felt i can get...
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. Do women feel appreciated, honored, valued, and so on with it? Well, me too when I do that, which I am used way before I started dating, but also when a woman treats me with that same honor/respect.