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The issue is not about independence vs. subserviance,
In America, there is a stereotype that Asian women and women from some other cultures are subserviant. This is total BS.
I've dated plenty of Asian women from several different ASian countries, and although are often lady-like, feminine, beautiful and act shy, they are almost always very strong individuals and they do not put up with a lot of BS from a man. In fact, in many ways they can be even more high maintenance than American women.
In the USA there is this stereotype that they are like servants that will let a man walk all over them and put up with it, but this is FAR from the truth.
In the USA the ideas and thoughts about Asian culture are pretty ridiculous. The real Asia is VERY different than the stereotype of it in the USA. Asia is not all lotus flowers and polite bowing people, it gets pretty gritty around here.
Many American women often confuse these issues. They think that rudeness, coldness and aloofness is equal to individualism and strength. So they act cold, aloof and rude and they think that it's a good thing. They think that they must act masculine and man-like to get respect and be successful in life.
I've known plenty of Asian men and women, and from my experience they were both capable of being cold, rude and aloof. And these were people who were immigrants and had not been Americanized yet.
Coldness is not something that is a "masculine" trait. It is a human trait. It is exactly this type of stereotyping which does people such a disservice. We are all human, regardless of our gender. We all have emotions, and we all interact with the world in our own way. To say that some emotions and characteristics are masculine, and others feminine all depends on socialization and has nothing to do with anything substantial. Sure women may be more nurturing because of biology, but I don't see what that has to do with dating someone of the opposite sex.
Maybe the problem is not American women, maybe it is that you expect the two genders to have very different traits. So it is ok for a man to be reserved, but not a woman? And a man can be cautious, but a woman has to be warm and trusting? What sense does that make?
I've known plenty of Asian men and women, and from my experience they were both capable of being cold, rude and aloof. And these were people who were immigrants and had not been Americanized yet.
Coldness is not something that is a "masculine" trait. It is a human trait. It is exactly this type of stereotyping which does people such a disservice. We are all human, regardless of our gender. We all have emotions, and we all interact with the world in our own way. To say that some emotions and characteristics are masculine, and others feminine all depends on socialization and has nothing to do with anything substantial. Sure women may be more nurturing because of biology, but I don't see what that has to do with dating someone of the opposite sex.
Maybe the problem is not American women, maybe it is that you expect the two genders to have very different traits. So it is ok for a man to be reserved, but not a woman? And a man can be cautious, but a woman has to be warm and trusting? What sense does that make?
You are mixing up what i'm saying.
I was talking about masculinity vs. feminity, and the fact that people act cold and aloof as serperate issues. You are trying to lump them together as one. I was making seperate points about each of those topics though.
And when immigrants to USA act a certain way. You must realize that the vibe and the culture in the USA is making them act differently than they would back home. I'm not saying that they would act like angels back in their home countries. But I do think that when the average person moves to the USA they act very different there.
Whenever I go to the USA I act different and I feel different. Because the USA vibe rubs off on you and sucks you in.
I was talking about masculinity vs. feminity, and the fact that people act cold and aloof as serperate issues. You are trying to lump them together as one. I was making seperate points about each of those topics though.
And when immigrants to USA act a certain way. You must realize that the vibe and the culture in the USA is making them act differently than they would back home. I'm not saying that they would act like angels back in their home countries. But I do think that when the average person moves to the USA they act very different there.
Whenever I go to the USA I act different and I feel different. Because the USA vibe rubs off on you and sucks you in.
So what do you consider masculine and what do you consider feminine?
So what do you consider masculine and what do you consider feminine?
I think its mostly subtle. It's in the way a person walks, the way they speak, their mannerisms, the way they dress and present themselves maybe. And in these ways, American women do not act very feminine at all.
You can do anything and be masculine or feminine while doing it. It's all about how it is done. You can cuss like a sailor and get drunk and get into a barfight and be feminine about it.
I think most of you all are getting mad at me because i'm focusing on women here. So you are labeling me as a politically incorrect sexist pig. I could easily write up a thread just like this about American men and the ridiculous ways they often act. But since I never date men, the way they act isn't as much of a concern to me.
I do not have anything against women, I do have a few concerns about American culture though.
it just sounds like its easier for you to pull foreign women which would naturally attribute to you favoring them over american women. Living abroad as an american gives you a mystique that the opposite sex will be drawn to (this also depending on the country you're living in). I myself am currently studying in Australia and get a nice dose of attention due to my american "accent" and i'm not complaining!!
My observations of the women here is that while they are a bit dressier on friday nights (this could also be because I'm living in flashy Sydney) their mannerisms are no more feminine than the average american girl.
You say that when people move to America they act very different (I can easily counteract this statement using my parents and/or relatives as an example who happened to move here years ago) ..and that 20-25% of us aren't the way you've described us which is why we shouldn't get offended..im curious as to where you're getting these "facts" from
I'm a California Bear as well and if anything the women here are pretty loud about their femininity. You mentioned that a couple indicators of being feminine include the way girls dress and present themselves. Well I'm surrounded by women who go to great lengths to make sure their nails are done, their hair styled and long, their makeup carefully applied...I always run into at least one or two girls who are shopping at the grocery store with their heels on. I can't imagine that their mannerisms would greatly contradict the way they physically present themselves. There's an abundance of those girls here and I feel that if you dated enough of them while in the states, you wouldn't be posting a whole passive aggressive thread generalizing the female population of America based on one date that sounded more like an interrogation than your average date. Also, based on your posts i get the general feeling that you don't enjoy a challenge when pursuing women (this not entirely relating to your recent bizarre encounter) and in that case I can see why you prefer the women who currently surround you
Last edited by laurenaus; 11-16-2009 at 07:11 AM..
Many American women often confuse these issues. They think that rudeness, coldness and aloofness is equal to individualism and strength. So they act cold, aloof and rude and they think that it's a good thing. They think that they must act masculine and man-like to get respect and be successful in life.
No, many of them may seem cold and aloof because they've had to adapt to their environment. An attractive women in this country can anticipate an additional level of challenges related to her appearance.
Take this forum for example. Many of the women on CD have had to take their profile pics down or make them private because they get cyber-stalked or unsolicited messages that are candid to say the least. Women have to conduct themselves in a different manner if they want to avoid being hit on constantly or being looked at strictly as eye candy and nothing more. Often, men mistake a friendly hello and a smile as a marriage proposal, right away they let their fantasies run wild over a simple hello.
Hence an attractive woman needs to be a little more reserved than a man. How many times have you seen guys who get shot down in a bar or club and right away they call the girl a stuck-up b*tch?
I'm guessing you have been spoiled with the attention that comes so easily to you overseas, and now you haven't got the patience to work for it. Not a big deal, but don't try to say that the problem lies with American women.
Next time you are out and about, take notice of the majority of women who work legitimate jobs and aren't struggling financially, and who aren't quite taken by your status as an American.
yep gotta agree. to the OP: it's ridiculous to judge the women of an entire nation/culture/ethnicity/race or whatever because its just too broad of a generalization. people are people wherever you go...as others have said, no matter where you are you can find men/women that are warm and friendly as well as those that are rude and cold.
yep gotta agree. to the OP: it's ridiculous to judge the women of an entire nation/culture/ethnicity/race or whatever because its just too broad of a generalization. people are people wherever you go...as others have said, no matter where you are you can find men/women that are warm and friendly as well as those that are rude and cold.
good luck!
Hi ElysianEagle,
Why is it so hard to grasp the concept that cultures do differ? They actually do. I make generalizations all the time. I just assume people speak Spanish in Mexico, for example. Yes you can find good American women but they will have a cultural affectations that you may or may not prefer.
If anything Americans in general eat some of the worst food in the world and it shows. So I don't much care for that. I have also heard many complaint about Americans from people overseas because we tend to socialize in restaurants and know little about domestic hospitality. This is from people I have met. Since I don't like sitting around in restaurants, it also rubs me wrong.
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