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Some of it worked; for example, she's improved drastically where the bank accounts are concerned (although we have two joint, her original accounts with my name on them, because I can't trust her to turn over her earnings for household accounts on her own, and others separate, in my name only, for the household accounting).
Around the house the lying seems to have slowed down, although I honestly can't say whether that's because of improvement on her part or because since I don't care the way I once did I'm questioning her less, ignoring certain actions on her part so long as they don't actually cause damage.
For example, she used to lie about things which concerned our infant son. At first these caused damage TO HIM (such as whether or not she'd made certain he was covered during a chilly night -- seriously, WHY LIE about something like that?!?) and I was frustrated because I was juggling other balls such as finances, home improvement, bills she was racking up, etc. Once I caught on that she was lying, I began with simple confrontation. The problem with simply confronting a liar is they'll lie to get out of whatever perceived disapproval they've incurred.
Since my son is my primary concern I simply took over his care entirely, trusting her for only small things which I still monitor.
So technically, I can't say whether lying has improved because she's gotten better or because she has less need or opportunity to lie.
...
I see where you have got your verbal relationship skills that I noted earlier. Having to live with a habitual lier will train someone to always look for the meaning behind the words used and any unstated but implied messages. My hat is off to you for being able to accommodate and work with your spouse.
Your question seems to have less to do with a liar (although that IS a large part of it) than with a cheater mentality which is clingy.
As a cheater (and apparently a chronic one) this individual will always have a NEED to lie because he'll always be trying to cover his arse. There's really no way around that for him, so it will always be present.
As for the LIAR aspect of it...
Some people really are just inherently liars. My wife is, most unfortunately, one of them. The reason liars lie is USUALLY for the same reason your cheater was lying: Because they're doing something they believe the other party would not approve of, they fear to be open about it (in some cases why WOULD they be open?) and so they invent justifications and scenarios to cover themselves.
The thing about lying is it's habit forming. It's not just a way of speaking, it's a way of thinking, and as one becomes adept at it that manner of thinking moves to the forefront of the consciousness, much like training the arm to block a blow -- with enough practice it becomes automatic.
The way I began to tone down my wife's lying (it's not cured and likely will never be cured, but it's been helped some) is to confront her logically and directly, to point out the lie, to point out the damage caused by the lie (specifically, so as to leave no doubt or wiggle-room for justification) and then to point out the lack of NEED for lying.
In my case I pointed out her lying to me about money she's spent as futile (since I can check the bank statements) and SILLY since she's a grown woman who actually earns the larger portion of household income, so she's entitled to spend some money here and there -- just TELL me about it so I can put it in the books rather than hiding it so we get nasty surprises from the bank! I pointed out the thousands (yes, THOUSANDS) of dollars we'd lost in overdraft fees because she refused to act responsibly. I even listed all the items we're supposed to be saving for and showed her how those were paid for at least three times over by the money LOST thusly. I finally said "Do you know how far ahead of the game we'd be if you worked WITH me instead of acting like I'm the enemy?"
In your case I'd point out some of the most egregious, blatant lies your "friend" has told you and point-blank ask: Do you think I'm stupid? I'd point out the damage done (the relationship ending, his alleged misery), I'd point out that NONE of that had to happen.
I wouldn't, however, take the ******* back; that's just asking for trouble.
I am not gay in any way--- but I have never trusted men. I almost feel like I cant stand them. Except I love my 4 brothers dearly.. blah blah.. In the beginning of my 6 or so year relationship, my partner (bf) had some wine and then wouldnt stop going into detail on the subject of "all men cheat". He did not like my ex and it was all mutual. blaah blah But I think he was trying to say my ex cheated. And as gullable as it may sound, I know he never ever did. It was really the only thing that we had -- was trust in that area. Blah blah... ANYWAY, my partner has had history and known for lieing and cheating... but i knew him since jr. high. so does that count? says he has grown up (is 46 y/o ) but somehow.. i dont think so. Is the sweetest dearest man but this area is painful. The constant lies or feeling like lies being cheated on w/ who knows (puts my stomach in knots to think about it.. touching someone else..???) Some people seem to lie to people-- telling them what they(the liar) THINKS the person wants or needs to hear. I have heard him many times lie to his friends, parents, kids, me, ex, etc. Am leaving him he just doesnt know it yet. And am so angry tired and hurt --- he DESERVES to be the last to know. Gosh this is going to suck. It already has for 6+yrs. The constant wonder if the person yr sleeping next to is ... ya gotta wonder or stick yr head in the sand. When you are lied to, it breaks the trust. Ya do minimal to build the trust back, then that trust doesnt come back. Missing that one BASIC thinh reaks HAVOK in any relationship-- esp your intimate one. Any of you men out there who think that its ok because you are "men".... your REALLY FU and SELFISH in that thinking. The primal BS is just that. BS. And for the women who lie and cheat (wow is getting more and more popular... ) You might be having fun but how would you like your partner/ liar to be like you???? Ok am done venting. Good luck I trulely understand the pain of being w/ a liar a cheater and it hurts/pissesess me off , just as much as it would hurt and pesssss you men off. Dont be selfish. Show your restraint and dont act like a dog that needs to be on a leash because it cant be trusted to not run away. Women liars, also.So why not give what you expect in return---- TRUST . It seems almost like a luxury to be w/ someone who you get that with. Heck, anymore you never know. Remember the condoms and also know this ---that they wil NOT protect you from everything. including herpies. (I am a nurse- a hurt and angry one for the moment-- am human)
Do you really want to take this project on, even in trying to get other people to help him?
He doesn't want help, he wants people to manipulate. Once he knows he can't get away with it, he will find new people to work over.
Love him from afar, wish him well, and find someone who actually values you. When you do (along with time), you will see this man for what he is and be grateful he's gone. When you get to a place where your happiness and well being comes first, without negotiation, you will have no desire to "help" people like this.
Most people lie for a reason. And most people don't like to lie. They lie because they feel they have to. If you can find the root cause, or the reason they lie, then first you can understand why they're lying, which can make you much more sympathetic to their situation. If you can talk it out with them and if they can identify their own patterns and reasons for lying, they may not even feel the need to lie anymore.
It's easy to feel hurt or insulted that someone would lie to you but it's important to remember that more often than not, it's more about them than it is about you. They don't feel comfortable with a part of themselves, or they're afraid you'll judge them. Sometimes it's because you will, and other times it's just their own fear.
Some people have grown up with so many people who lied in their lives that it just becomes a pattern they're used to. They might lie and not even know why. It feels comfortable because it's what they're most used to. Some people, especially people who have more chronic patterns of lying, have very deep root cause that might be beyond your scope of understanding or your ability to be emotionally supportive. I'd found it's generally unwise to try to "save" these kind of people. Some people need more than one person, professional help, or more life experience to get out of their own deep-set patterns of lying.
I can say with confidence, that every time I have lied in life (cause we all do), it's been with a very good reason, at least in my mind. An example: I lie to people where I live about my wife. I tell them she's my sister. I do this because I live in a very homophobic town and being deaf-blind, I'm a very easy target for an attack of any kind. So I lie for my personal safety. I hate having to be dishonest about who I am, but it's just not a wise thing to do here.
Of course, as soon as I move to a place that's more accepting of gay people, I won't feel the need to lie anymore. Once the reason for lying is eliminated, there's no more need to lie. And I can't wait.
Ultimately though, the only person who can really stop the pattern of lying is the person lying. You can try to guide them, you can hold up a mirror and hope they see themselves clearer, but they're the only one that is responsible for their own personal change, and they're the only one that can make change happen for good.
I am out of his life, but would like those who are still his friends to help him stop lying. He's going to destroy himself. And yes - I do love him and want the best for him, just not at my expense. How does someone stop lying?
Right. You are out of his life--that means he's no longer your problem--and with dang good reason. He is a deceitful, dishonest, slimeball. Who cares if he destroys himself? Seriously, people like that do not learn and do not change unless they hit rock bottom, and there is nothing you or anyone short of a mental health professional can do about it. Put away your co-dependent tendencies, get tested for STDs, and get on with your life.
ETA: And he's nearly 50? Come on, wake up. This guy is a loser who will never change. He's a sociopath and a con man. Quit wasting your time.
Liars usually lie to get out of a lie till they are up to their necks.
I had a friend like that and whatever came out of his mouth was always questioned.
You can't change anyone.
First of all, you have to get tough. Stop being so nice and being lead along by your heart.
Once you get burned you have to move away from the stove.
I have learned you have to be honest at all times. Even just a small lie can blow up to a big lie someday.
If you lie you will always be on guard against people confronting you cause you have to remember what your story was. If it's contradicting then you will be caught. That sort of life seems stressful to me.
I've found that in order to stop lying, you have the stop the behaviour that led to the lying. This might not be true of truly sociopathic, compulsive liars, but I was a person who always told little lies about things if I thought I was going to get in trouble. It took a bit of growing up and a more than a few times being caught in a lie to realise that. And it took a really huge lie (and getting caught) to really make me think.
I can't remember the last time I told a lie, and I am pretty happy about that.
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the liar/cheater
