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Have you considered that giving a comparison of available source documents from the ancient near east which depict a flood myth, the number of competing flood myths would lead 1 to conclude that there is actually more "evidence" for an Utnapishtim or Atrahasis, rather than for a Noah? I'm thinking along the lines a historian would require concerning how many witnesses makes a story reliable.
In addition, though you probably don't subscribe to the normative JEPD Theory ( The theory that tries to trace the individual oral and written traditions that eventually were incorporated by the final editor of the Pentateuch), the theory actually posits 2 separate sources for the flood account inthe Genesis - thus, technically increasing the number of "eye-witnesses" a historian would require in assessing an accounts historicity. Many people view the book of genesis as technically 1 source, not realizing its composite authorial nature. Using the JEDP Theory, however, would consider the j and p sources behind the flood myths as relatively independent witnesses -to so he was aware of and working with j when he composed his account and blended it with j, so it's hard to determine how "independent" P would be. Add to this Gunkel's ideas of finding the oral and writtenwritten sources behind the j and p documents, and you could conceivably increase the number of witnesses a historian requires.
You may consider this as useless, or not even subscribe (or be aware of) to the JEDP Theory (Source Criticism), or Gunkel's scholarship (Form Criticism) - But you are trying to convince modern people with historical and scientific outlooks, So you will have to use the same tools they do if trying to convince them. You are not preaching to the choir here.
Well, there ya' go: I gave you just a little more ammunition, but you must use it wisely.
Hi whoppers,
Thanks for your very fine post. Very well done.
I am curious what you think about this as regards JEDP Theory:
basic.theology.forums > JEPD Theory (http://www.basictheology.com/definitions/JEPD_Theory/ - broken link)
I thought I answered the question.
I will repeat the answer:
"But the apostle Paul prophesied that there must be sects among the churches (1 Cor.11:19)."
Why must there be sects among the churches? Paul give the reason:
"1Cor 11:19 For it must be that there are sects also among you, that those also who are qualified may be becoming apparent among you."
To prophesize is not the same to explain why. Heck, there was no need to prophesize anything when the book was already written with fragmentation in existence.
So, the unanswered question again: Why such fragmentation of Christianity?
Originally Posted by Eusebius Paul gives the reason:
"1Cor 11:19 For it must be that there are sects also among you, that those also who are qualified may be becoming apparent among you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
To prophesize is not the same to explain why. Heck, there was no need to prophesize anything when the book was already written with fragmentation in existence.
So, the unanswered question again: Why such fragmentation of Christianity?
Dear EG,
I reposted my former reply. Please note the bolded "that"above. It is to be understood as the reason for "why there must be sects among you." The reason given is "so that those also who are qualified may be becoming apparent among you."
I'm not real sure what this has to do with the world-wide flood of Noah's day.
Dear EG,
I reposted my former reply. Please note the bolded "that"above. It is to be understood as the reason for "why there must be sects among you." The reason given is "so that those also who are qualified may be becoming apparent among you."
I'm not real sure what this has to do with the world-wide flood of Noah's day.
So, Christians have different qualifications, hence the sects? Who among these sects, would you say, is the most qualified?
So, Christians have different qualifications, hence the sects? Who among these sects, would you say, is the most qualified?
Paul was pointing out that there are those teachers who are qualified to know what they are talking about and those teachers who are not qualified. Sectarianism has its roots in improper understanding of the Scriptures.
I don't know who is the MOST qualified. I just know some, based on my being in so many different sects since I first came into the faith, who would be highly qualified. I can give you one person's email address if you want to ask him any question on the Bible.
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