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There's some correlation, but the more religious nations of Europe (Cyprus, Greece, Malta, Ireland to an increasingly lesser extent) I think do significantly better than us too. In fact I seem to recall even Filipinos do better.
The US is one of the few developed nations (outside of maybe Northern Ireland, which isn't a nation in itself) that has a strong conservative Protestant element. Greece doesn't, Malta doesn't, Poland maybe does a little but not much, and Cyprus I think barely has any such thing. So the dynamic is different here besides just being religious.
That being said America is still a very inventive and technologically advanced society. It's not clear to me that people who do menial jobs or even teach Spanish actually do need to understand or accept even basic biology or cosmology. (Granted they really should know math and probably some Newtonian physics) It would be good if they did, but I'm not sure how it effects their ability to do their job or that it makes them "dangerous." There seems to have been some perfectly good engineers who believe in some of the most hare-brained Creationist ideas. So I'm not sure I see the danger as such.
It's like on some level I think educated Americans should know the name of the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court and the Prime Minister of Britain, but a sizable minority to small majority don't know either one. It's unfortunate, but I don't know I can call it "dangerous" so long as the people who should know those things do.
I think what Krauss means is that most Americans simply refuse to believe Scientific facts and this can be dangerous when public policies are decided and voted upon by a populace that does not understand even basic Scientific principles.
I agree that most people don't "need Cosmology"(for work)(but who needs Religion for work if you want to go down that path). But really isn't that one of the ultimate goals of being human...to understand where we came from and where we are going...isn't that also a large part of Religion; Philosophy and Science/Mathematics too?
Thanks, Pittson2saratosa, for your posts. They are very informative of the cutting edge of 'Whodunnit' and should be required watching for anyone wanting to argue about it, whether for or against.
I think what Krauss means is that most Americans simply refuse to believe Scientific facts and this can be dangerous when public policies are decided and voted upon by a populace that does not understand even basic Scientific principles.
I agree that most people don't "need Cosmology"(for work)(but who needs Religion for work if you want to go down that path). But really isn't that one of the ultimate goals of being human...to understand where we came from and where we are going...isn't that also a large part of Religion; Philosophy and Science/Mathematics too?
In some southern states, over 50% of science teachers believe evolution is only a theory. We value false piety and god, not science. We are not impressed much with well-read people or people who question basic assumptions - some mock them as "elitist". Many people are falling behind the times, whereas in other countries, people are starting to catch up and make those countries competitive. I just hope we do not degenerate to a christian theocracy - even now, many religious nuts are in full force pushing their agenda and feigning prosecution. Ignorance is not a bliss and we will all pay as the collective decisions we make (like who we elect) impact how we live. We are the most powerful nation on earth, and our decisions also have major influence on the rest of the world. Scary that there is so much ignorance around.
I think what Krauss means is that most Americans simply refuse to believe Scientific facts and this can be dangerous when public policies are decided and voted upon by a populace that does not understand even basic Scientific principles.
I agree that most people don't "need Cosmology"(for work)(but who needs Religion for work if you want to go down that path). But really isn't that one of the ultimate goals of being human...to understand where we came from and where we are going...isn't that also a large part of Religion; Philosophy and Science/Mathematics too?
This is the problem I have with Atheist. It doesn't matter if a whole continent doesn't agree with a scientific theory, you'll still find a way to put down the intelligence of an entire nation. You have to be kidding me right now. You think just because a group of people don't agree with every scientific theory, they are unintelligent somehow? Based on what? Opinion alone? That's a load of crap for you to make a ridiculous generalization like that. There are Christians with bachelors and masters and Ph D's of various studies all over the country. Your really trying to put down the American people and their intelligence just because they don't agree with a scientific theory that has never even been proven as a fact. Not even a fact. It's sad that your arrogance and pride is really what delusions you into thinking we're the crazy and stupid ones but as time goes on, your still scratching your heads thinking why the majority of Americans (various people that work in huge corporations, run business, and are educators) still think that a God created the heavens and earth.
This is the problem I have with Atheist. It doesn't matter if a whole continent doesn't agree with a scientific theory, you'll still find a way to put down the intelligence of an entire nation. You have to be kidding me right now. You think just because a group of people don't agree with every scientific theory, they are unintelligent somehow? Based on what? Opinion alone? That's a load of crap for you to make a ridiculous generalization like that. There are Christians with bachelors and masters and Ph D's of various studies all over the country. Your really trying to put down the American people and their intelligence just because they don't agree with a scientific theory that has never even been proven as a fact. Not even a fact. It's sad that your arrogance and pride is really what delusions you into thinking we're the crazy and stupid ones but as time goes on, your still scratching your heads thinking why the majority of Americans (various people that work in huge corporations, run business, and are educators) still think that a God created the heavens and earth.
I think you just made his point allen... The US still has a long way to go I'm afraid.
Allan, mate, you have to ask yourself: which would you say looks more intelligent, someone who draws conclusions from a stack of sound, predictive and confirmed evidence or someone who rejects all that as 'just a theory' because it disagrees with something he was taught to believe from a very old book, much of which looks mythological?
Remember that Evolution and the Big bang do NOT disprove God or even goddunnit. It is possible to say that there was a god behind evolution and behind the big bang because, bet your boots, chum, those things happened if evidence counts for anything at all.
What seems to be the case is that Evolution and Big bang - denial derives purely from Bible - literalist fundamentalists who insist that the book of Genesis is history and fact.
It isn't and cannot be. Not if evidence counts for anything.
But, somehow, the Bible - literalist view has become, in far too many countries, the Christian and even the religious view, because now the Muslims are jumping on the Creationist band - wagon.
To deny stacks of sound evidence is unintelligent and the sad fact is, old sausage, that faith can make intelligent people look stupid because it teaches them to deny sound facts in favour of Faith.
If you are intelligent - and I don't doubt you are - you have to realise that the believers are on a hiding to nothing if they go into denial about scientific evidence. They will have to back - pedal in the end and letting the Bible - literalist, evolution - denying religious Fundamentalists lead them around by the nose is doing them no favours at all.
It is just making them look stupid even if they are not.
A final remark about the fallacy of numbers. Please remember this because I'm tired of pointing it out to people who are smart enough to have worked it out for themselves.
At one time most people thought the earth was flat. at one time most people thought the planets went around the earth. At one time most people believed in the Roman gods and hardly anyone believed in Christianity. At one time most people did not believe that heavier - than -air flight was possible. Have I made the point of the fallacy of numbers?
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-06-2010 at 08:34 AM..
This is a great link from Scientific American Magazine and is written by Lawrence M. Krauss.
United States adults are less willing to accept the BIG BANG and EVOLUTION as factual than the adults in most other industrialized nations.
When presented with the statement "Human beings as we know them today, developed from earlier species of animals"......just 45% of Adult Americans responded "Yes". Contrast this affirmitive number with Japan...78%; Europe...70%; China...69% and South Korea...64%.
Only 33% of U.S. adults agree that the Universe began with an initial explosion i.e. The Big Bang.
According to a 2009 PEW Survey 31% of Adult Americans agree that "humans and all living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time". So much for dog and other animal selective breeding, plant cross pollination and bacteria evolving to resist Penicillin and many other antibiotics.
Here is the link to this fascinating article and other informative links relating to this thread.
The big bang is not exclusive to science. I and many other Christians I know believe that when God said "Let there be light". There was a massive explosion of light into the nothingness around.
However, I separate from science with the billions of years and rather follow God's explanation of how he created everything as documented in Genesis.
It's sad that your arrogance and pride is really what delusions you into thinking we're the crazy and stupid ones but as time goes on, your still scratching your heads thinking why the majority of Americans (various people that work in huge corporations, run business, and are educators) still think that a God created the heavens and earth.
Same reason the majority of people thought the earth was round , because they were ignorant.
The big bang is not exclusive to science. I and many other Christians I know believe that when God said "Let there be light". There was a massive explosion of light into the nothingness around.
However, I separate from science with the billions of years and rather follow God's explanation of how he created everything as documented in Genesis.
There was no light until about 300,000 years after the big bang, so your beliefs are wrong once again.
Same reason the majority of people thought the earth was round , because they were ignorant.
Excuse me. The bible has ALWAYS said the earth was round!! It's the people that interpret it WRONG that spread the wrong message and had others believing the same crap. If you interpret the bible incorrectly and your spreading this word to everyone else, your going to look stupid when someone else figures out from an invention that disproves what you said! And then the Bible and Christianity is going to get the bad rap because of YOU. It's human stupidity that causes that. Humans own ignorance. Not God.
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