Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The recent suicide of Tyler Clementi has caused a broad spectrum of Christian denominations to rethink how they approach addressing issues related to sexual orientation.
From a story highlighting some of the calls for change:
While defending traditional Christian teaching against homosexuality, they say divisive and condemnatory rhetoric needs to be replaced with actually getting to know a gay neighbor or classmate.
It is a true change, or is it merely damage control? The hatred and intolerance is systemic and ingrained in religion, thus I suspect merely damage control.
Time will tell, but given a year or less, I suspect the homophobes holding their bible will be screaming sinner in the direction of all homosexuals, centuries of intolerant tradition isn't easily changed.
ovcatto: I agree, but doesn't that go against the Bible verse which condemns 'lying with other men'? Seems to me that they are trying to update something which can't be updated.
ovcatto: I agree, but doesn't that go against the Bible verse which condemns 'lying with other men'? Seems to me that they are trying to update something which can't be updated.
Although I am an devout atheist, I do have a firm foundation in Christian ethics from being raised by a Methodist theologian father and years of Catholic education, having said that, the step forward, as I see it, is a return to expressing Christian ethics to non-followers from a position of true fellowship and love. Or as the Christians often say, to hate the sin but to love the sinner. To bully someone from a position of hatred and recrimination is antithetical to the Christianity that I was taught. So, I applaud those who genuinely recast their approach to those that they disagree with. Like I said earlier, its a nice step forward.
(now if we can just get them to drop the whole mumbo jumbo to begin with...)
Although I am an devout atheist, I do have a firm foundation in Christian ethics from being raised by a Methodist theologian father and years of Catholic education, having said that, the step forward, as I see it, is a return to expressing Christian ethics to non-followers from a position of true fellowship and love. Or as the Christians often say, to hate the sin but to love the sinner. To bully someone from a position of hatred and recrimination is antithetical to the Christianity that I was taught. So, I applaud those who genuinely recast their approach to those that they disagree with. Like I said earlier, its a nice step forward.
(now if we can just get them to drop the whole mumbo jumbo to begin with...)
Horsecrap. The "hate the sin but love the sinner" garbage is exactly that - garbage. It is nothing more than an excuse to condemn the actions of an individual and, subsequently, the person as well while throwing the nice "catchword" of love in the mix.
Our actions and thoughts largely make us who we are. Our actions and thoughts are a large part of our identity, our persona, and our being. Saying that you hate a person's homosexuality is a refusal to admit that their homosexuality is a part of them, and in many ways, a very large part of them. It is something many people struggle with their whole lives and feel an immense pressure to reform from in the first place. But, it is as much a part of them as your sexuality is to you, as your ideass are to you, and the rest of your thoughts and actions are to you. To say that you simply disapprove and hate that part of someone is ok as long as you coddle the individual is defamatory and rancorous.
I deplore the speech of Christians who try to popularize such filth as though it's a very nice way of saying "I do love you, it's just that I hate x,y,z about you. Smiles, toodles, and don't forget to come to Jesus!"
ovcatto: I agree, but doesn't that go against the Bible verse which condemns 'lying with other men'? Seems to me that they are trying to update something which can't be updated.
Except that it has already been updated several times, and the original language actually says nothing about homosexuality as we know it today.
ovcatto: I agree, but doesn't that go against the Bible verse which condemns 'lying with other men'? Seems to me that they are trying to update something which can't be updated.
But the quotation, above, is on the same page as edicts forbidding anyone from wearing two mixed fabrics on the same day, or eating shellfish. Orthodox Jews do follow these rules, but how many Christians do?
Horsecrap. The "hate the sin but love the sinner" garbage is exactly that - garbage. It is nothing more than an excuse to condemn the actions of an individual and, subsequently, the person as well while throwing the nice "catchword" of love in the mix.
Our actions and thoughts largely make us who we are. Our actions and thoughts are a large part of our identity, our persona, and our being. Saying that you hate a person's homosexuality is a refusal to admit that their homosexuality is a part of them, and in many ways, a very large part of them. It is something many people struggle with their whole lives and feel an immense pressure to reform from in the first place. But, it is as much a part of them as your sexuality is to you, as your ideass are to you, and the rest of your thoughts and actions are to you. To say that you simply disapprove and hate that part of someone is ok as long as you coddle the individual is defamatory and rancorous.
I deplore the speech of Christians who try to popularize such filth as though it's a very nice way of saying "I do love you, it's just that I hate x,y,z about you. Smiles, toodles, and don't forget to come to Jesus!"
I've always thought of that as saying 'I love you, but I HATE your religion and everything about it'. That would hit a fervert believer pretty hard, considering their belief system is a huge part of who they are.
Horsecrap. The "hate the sin but love the sinner" garbage is exactly that - garbage. It is nothing more than an excuse to condemn the actions of an individual and, subsequently, the person as well while throwing the nice "catchword" of love in the mix.
Well, in this environment I'm issuing props to anyone who turns down the volume.
Well, in this environment I'm issuing props to anyone who turns down the volume.
Fair enough.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
