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It's no more "valid" than any of Wyatt's other claims. Unsubstantiated by evidence, ridiculed by experts who have actually spent their lives in the archaeology business (and even members of his own church). The man was a forger and a charlatan....you know it mate. His claims to have found just about every artefact that has eluded the most experienced archaeologists for hundreds of years is, quite simply, preposterous
Well old bud, you are the one that veered off topic, so it's a bit late now to make the above statement.
Nearly 100 years of excavations have yielded no conclusive evidence that the Israelites were ever slaves, lived in Egypt, or wandered in the wilderness for 40 years. Nor is there proof that they conquered Canaan with Joshua as their leader.
There use to be no evidence for the Hittite Kingdom, or King David. Yet time has revealed that they both existed. As non believers are proven wrong by historical discovery, they simply move on forgetting their past mistakes. And then they begin to point their fingers again. Which only sets them up to be proven wrong again.
Much of the finds are found in coral. And like a Spanish shipwreck often such finds are located right on top of the sand. Other examples could be given.
Did you ignore Wyatt's photograph? Do you not see the chariot wheel lying on a bed of sand...not coral...sand?
It's no more "valid" than any of Wyatt's other claims. Unsubstantiated by evidence, ridiculed by experts who have actually spent their lives in the archaeology business (and even members of his own church). The man was a forger and a charlatan....you know it mate. His claims to have found just about every artefact that has eluded the most experienced archaeologists for hundreds of years is, quite simply, preposterous
Rafius, most of his claims aren't valid. Yet as I have stated, his Red Sea crossing site, and the Mt. Sinai Site has been verfied by both Dr. Moller, Bob Cornuke, and others. Dr. Moller spent ten years of his life researching both sites, and he found much more then Wyatt. So don't blame Wyatt for what others are now telling us. If you keep your focus only on Wyatt who died some years ago. You will be living in the past. You have to consider what others are finding today.
Did you ignore Wyatt's photograph? Do you not see the chariot wheel lying on a bed of sand...not coral...sand?
Often gold is found that way. If you don't believe me, ask Mel Fisher. I found a shipwreck back in 1979. And twenty feet of it was above the bottom sand. Yet today you can see nothing. Sands continue to cover and uncover.
There use to be no evidence for the Hittite Kingdom, or King David. Yet time has revealed that they both existed. As non believers are proven wrong by historical discovery, they simply move on forgetting their past mistakes. And then they begin to point their fingers again. Which only sets them up to be proven wrong again.
Oh please Campo!! The Egyptians themselves recorded their battles with the Hittites. Kadesh springs to mind. I wouldn't argue that what history knew about them was sparse but to argue that experts thought they were just a biblical myth is rather a stretch. History records them...just not in much detail.
Well your very first statement is more of a half truth. Yes I believe Wyatt had mental problems, but that was near the end of his life. I did not believe he was that way all of his life. And that should not take away from what he accomplished in his earlier years. Nor should Dr. Mollers indepth account be dismissed as a rehash. It's pretty obvious to me you will do anything to dismiss any evidence put before you. And you do this with your main tool of denial.
And the red granit pillars marking the Red Sea crossing site were most likely place there by Solomon. And that was because the actual event was sill fresh in the minds of the Children of Israel that placed the pillars there. And you dismiss that? Because if you do, then there is really no good reason for you to believe any historical event that occured from 400 years ago. And that is because much of those historical accounts are based on what later people believed. Your logic really becomes illogical. And that is because your strict standard only appears in use when speaking of the Biblical account. Now if you are really honest. Why don't you tell all of us, that any history from 400 years ago really can't be believed? Especially if we use your above criteria. You say you could give us 190 incontravertible proofs that the Bible is ficticious. And then you say you would have to substantiate your case. Really! Well it appears to me when evidence comes in from someone like Dr. Moller who spent ten years researching the Exodus, you dismiss his evidence without substantiating anything. You just tell us it's all a rehash. And you based that belief of yours, based on no evidence presented by you. How is this possible?
And I fully understand why you do not want to discuss the other global flood accounts found across the entire world that match the Biblical account.
It is typical of you that you prefer to win cheap points by cheating. Instead of posting an argument in support of of the factual exodus, you prefer to toss out vague claims about what Wyatt, a nut, as you admit, 'achieved in his earlier years'. Nothing he had claimed was ever substantiated and much was shown totally loopy (1).
You can't even get your own facts straight.
"And the red granit pillars marking the Red Sea crossing site were most likely place there by Solomon. And that was because the actual event was sill fresh in the minds of the Children of Israel that placed the pillars there."
So who was it placed the pillars? Solomon or the people crossing? The inscription (unverified) is supposed to name Solomon. Even if it was, you claim that it was an event 'fresh in the mind' four hundred or more years later (2).
You trip yourself up here "Why don't you tell all of us, that any history from 400 years ago really can't be believed?" Apart from your overdrawn dismissal of all evidence on the grounds of undeniable debate about interpretation, you on the other hand insist on this totally whacky stuff being accepted on Faith.
"And then you say you would have to substantiate your case. Really! "
Yes, really. Don't you think I have substantiated my case over the Ahmose 'Tempest' stele and done the work which you certainly didn't as you preferred to take the dishonest claims of the writer at face value? C34, you have no credibility left and you have the infernal gall to talk to me about denial and being 'really honest'.
If you support this chap Moller's argument, take the time to say why. Don't post a you tube documentary and expect me to prepare a written case out of it. That's your job - if you expect Moller's claims to accepted by me. Of course, seeing the hoary old chariot wheel photo is going to make me say he is rehashing Wyatt's stuff. If he really had been coming up with anything new why post all that old stuff?
I'm always willing to be convinced (which we can't say about you - not even the most detailed and heavily supported case persuades you) but not on the basis of a name quoted as an Authority, a puff about how much time he's spent on it and the archetypal tool of the theist apologist with no case - 'Denial'.
As Gandalf said - that word springs too easily to your lips.
(1)
Noah's Ark (the Durupinar site, for which he has been the prime promoter)
Stone sea anchors believed to be used by Noah to steer the vessel into the wind
Petrified timbers from the Ark that were used as memorials in an Armenian graveyard (well, now we know where the Ark expedition got its petrified log from)
Noah's sacrifice area at the site
A large stone carving near the Ark picturing 8 people coming out of the side, with a rainbow above the boat, and inscriptions in Sumerian, Hurrian, and Urartian identifying this formation as the Ark of Noah
Trainloads of petrified pre-flood wood that had no tree rings on the site
Corroded metal fittings, found in rows, delineating the "ribs of the ship," as indicated by metal detectors and especially a "molecular frequency generator"
A house that Noah built <
Stones on this house containing inscriptions that recorded details about the Deluge <LI
A pictograph of eight people leaving a large wave of water with a boat perched above it
Noah's grave
Mrs. Noah's grave (containing a fortune-her gold and jewelry)
The Ark of the Covenant (under the exact spot where Jesus was crucified)
The Menorah (a seven-branched candelabra), the Table of Shewbread, and the Golden Altar of Incense from the ancient Temple
Christ's blood, scraped off of the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant <LI
DNA analysis of the blood indicates that Christ was born of a virgin
The true site of Christ's crucifixion and the stone socket in which the cross was placed
Verified the tomb of Christ was the actual tomb
Claimed Jesus' tomb was sealed with a Roman iron spike, still visible
Moses' stone tablets containing the Ten Commandments, held together with golden hinges
Solved the problem of the construction of the pyramids
Also the problems in Egyptian chronology
Discovered the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah
Discovered sulfur balls from the same
The true site of the Israelites' Red Sea crossing
A stone monument near the site erected by Solomon, inscribed with the ancient Hebrew script
Horse and human skeletons from Pharaoh's drowned army
Gold covered chariot wheels and chariot parts
The true Mount Sinai
The 12 altars built by Moses in Exodus 24 <
The actual rock Moses struck to release water at Kadesh <
The site of Korah's earthquake where the ground swallowed up Korah and his followers <LI class=MsoNormal style="tab-stops: list .5in; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3">Knows how the Shroud of Turin was forged Has cracked the code of the Copper Scroll
Claimed (on tape) that he can read any ancient inscription Discovered the pillars of Solomon
The tomb of the Patriarchs, the cave of Machpelah
Moses was known in Egyptian history as Thutmosa III
Joseph was the builder of the first pyramid
Storage bins Joseph used during the drought in Egypt
Bones of giant pre-flood people
Ancient Canaanite burial pots at Ashkelon (This is the only one that even looks other than laughable)
(2)Israel The first record of the name Israel occurs in the Merneptah stele, erected for Egyptian Pharaoh Merneptah c. 1209 BCE, "Israel is laid waste and his seed is not." - Solomon and David 10th c. Solomon mid 900's BC
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-10-2010 at 04:41 AM..
Well old bud, you are the one that veered off topic, so it's a bit late now to make the above statement.
Nearly 100 years of excavations have yielded no conclusive evidence that the Israelites were ever slaves, lived in Egypt, or wandered in the wilderness for 40 years. Nor is there proof that they conquered Canaan with Joshua as their leader.
What evidence has been found is that they emerged from the Caananites as another of their tribes with their own tribal god amongst all the others, and with a female consort, too.
Ther claim to have originated from Sumer is to be treated with caution and there is no evidence - not a shred - that the exodus account has any historical basis. And that's what this thread is about.
Rafius, I agree with much of the overview about Wyatt. Yet his discovery of the Red Sea crossing site and Mt. Sinia are valid. And have been confirmed by others. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
You need to support these claims. You can't just toss them in as facts that should be taken on trust. Your Red sea claims are far from substantiated. I gather that the columns are not there - it being claimed that the Saudi authorities rmoved them - so why are they not on view in a musem? Muslims surely don't want to disprove the Bible.
The 'real' mount Sinai is neither here nor there. If the giving of the covenant is a myth then any mountain will do.
You have presented no case, just made claims. Present your bathwater and we promise we will search it for every trace of a baby. As we saw with the Ahmose Tempest stele claim, there was no baby in it even when it was baled out, bit by bit.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-10-2010 at 04:42 AM..
There use to be no evidence for the Hittite Kingdom, or King David. Yet time has revealed that they both existed. As non believers are proven wrong by historical discovery, they simply move on forgetting their past mistakes. And then they begin to point their fingers again. Which only sets them up to be proven wrong again.
The only difference is that the 'non - believers' as you like to call them, take new information on board. Yet the information which is gradually discrediting the Bible account of the formation of Israel and the Gospel account of Jesus is consistently ignored and denied by you and by far too many other believers.
You ignore my remark that I am not opposed to the idea of some historical basis for an Exodus but where is the evidence. You presented a link which I researched for you and found not only worthless but deliberate deception.
Apparently that is now blanked out of your mind. The rest has been that Solomon's pillar's thing which, even if true is no evidence at all, other than a Jewish king who believed a story four hundred years later.
The rest has just been authority - figure claims and pretty poor ones too. The buried chariot wheels and coral formations are no more than the photos of odd squares and broken rocks on Mars in the 'Aliens are not fake' thread.
Where is your evidence for the Exodus? We are tired of variants on the 'if you can't disprove it, it must be true' fallacy.
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