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Old 11-24-2010, 03:26 PM
 
170 posts, read 533,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359 View Post
Notice that in the bible, it's always "Jesus said" this, "Jesus said" that. Why didn't Jesus write his own words and books?
I dont know, why didnt King Tut write a book about himself?

What a silly thing to say.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:08 PM
 
2,079 posts, read 4,951,905 times
Reputation: 1895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
I dont know, why didnt King Tut write a book about himself?

What a silly thing to say.
King Tut didn't claim to be God.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,536 posts, read 37,140,220 times
Reputation: 14000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
I hope your joking...im assuming you dont even know what B.C. and A.D. mean..

No serious historian discounts that Jesus existed, alot of them of course dont believe he was God but to deny that he even existed is moronic.

Ancient historians. The Roman historian Tacitus (as well as his contemporary Suetonius) provides significant information about Jesus and his followers. Writing around A.D. 115, Tacitus notes that Christ was killed at the hand of Pontius Pilate while Tiberius was emperor; that Christ’s teachings had already spread to Rome; and that Christians were considered criminals and tortured in a variety of ways, including crucifixion (Annals 15:44). In addition, a disputed passage by the Jewish historian Josephus tells of Jesus’ virtuous conduct, his choosing of disciples, his crucifixion and death under Pilate, and the disciples’ reported appearances of the risen Jesus three days later (Antiquities 18:3). Yet another historian, Thallus, relates a very early (ca. A.D. 52) report of the crucifixion, attributing the darkness which occurred at Jesus’ death to an eclipse of the sun.
Ancient politicians and social commentators. Roman government officials such as Pliny the Younger and even two Caesars, Trajan and Hadrian, wrote intriguing letters mentioning Jesus and early Christian origins. Pliny, for example, writing about A.D. 112, describes weekly gatherings of early Christians (of all ages and social classes) who met before dawn, singing and worshipping Christ as Deity, and agreeing not to sin. Pliny, who required Christians be killed unless they denied Christ and worshiped the gods and emperor, asserts that true believers would not recant (Letters X:96).
Other Gentile evaluations of Jesus and the early church were written by Greek satirist Lucian of Samosata and a Syrian named Mara Bar-Serapion. Lucian wrote that Jesus taught the brotherhood of believers to deny other gods and to obey his laws. Christians, we are told, did not fear death because they were persuaded of their immortality: furthermore, they shared material possessions and frequently read from Scripture (The Death of Peregrine 11–13).
Non-Christian religious sources. The Talmud (an authoritative body of Jewish tradition), the Toledoth Jesu and several gnostic writings also offer relevant details about Jesus. One of the most interesting reports from this religious literature is the earliest reference to Jesus in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a), which states that Jesus was “hanged” (compare Galatians 3:13 and Luke 23:39) on Passover eve after the Jews were going to stone him for sorcery and for leading Israel astray. The account adds that anyone who wished to defend Jesus could have done so, but no one volunteered.
Archaeological sources. Recent digs have provided key background information. One inscription, for example, indicates that a Judean census occurred during the reign of Emperor Augustus (23 B.C. – A.D. 14), lending credibility to Luke’s story of the Roman taxation which brought Joseph and Mary to Bethlehem. Other relevant finds include the skeleton of Yohanan, a first century crucifixion victim, which reveals the basic technique of such capital punishment, and the Nazareth Decree, a stone which gives details of Jewish burial. Both back up details of Jesus’ crucifixion and burial mentioned in the Gospels.
In total, about one-third of these non-Christian sources date from the first century; a majority originate no later than the mid-second century. Noted historians such as Michael Grant and A. N. Sherwin-White explain that, compared to many ancient writings, these dates are quite early and close to the events themselves. Furthermore, these sources do not depend on the New Testament for their data. Numerous facts reported by Pliny, Lucian, the Talmud and others are recorded nowhere in the Gospels.
But, some might ask, “Don’t these ancient sources, unlike the New Testament, teach a non-supernatural Jesus?” Surprisingly, seven relate the belief in the deity of Jesus, and ten either state or imply his resurrection.
Post-New Testament Christian writings. Several non-New Testament Christian writings also relate details concerning the death and resurrection of Jesus. Some of these works, such as Clement of Rome’s Corinthians and Ignatius’s seven epistles, are early (A.D. 95 – 115); significantly, these writers were close to apostolic sources.
Nothing there but hearsay after the fact....Where is your link?...Oh I found it for you.... http://www.intervarsity.org/students...was-jesus-real

Show me some actual documentation...You know records of events made at the times they occurred.

Last edited by sanspeur; 11-24-2010 at 04:29 PM..
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Old 11-24-2010, 05:42 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,504,185 times
Reputation: 1775
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanskills View Post
I dont know, why didnt King Tut write a book about himself?

What a silly thing to say.
Do you believe that Jesus was illiterate, or that he just didn't think it was important to write down anything he was saying?
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Old 11-24-2010, 07:34 PM
 
63,809 posts, read 40,087,129 times
Reputation: 7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Nothing there but hearsay after the fact....Where is your link?...Oh I found it for you.... Was Jesus real? - StudentSoul.org

Show me some actual documentation...You know records of events made at the times they occurred.
Stop being ridiculous, sans . . . there is nothing about history that IS NOT HEARSAY!!!
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:59 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,536 posts, read 37,140,220 times
Reputation: 14000
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Stop being ridiculous, sans . . . there is nothing about history that IS NOT HEARSAY!!!
Did you miss "after the fact"? Is your need to insult that great that you don't thoroughly read posts?
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:58 AM
 
63,809 posts, read 40,087,129 times
Reputation: 7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
Did you miss "after the fact"? Is your need to insult that great that you don't thoroughly read posts?
It is not ridiculous to try to make artificial distinctions among the sources of hearsay???? What insult?? The over-sensitivity is becoming quite rampant around here . . . especially among the most vociferous "insulters" against believers. Interesting dynamic.
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Old 11-25-2010, 10:03 AM
 
170 posts, read 533,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359 View Post
King Tut didn't claim to be God.
Actually he probably did.
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 3,723,427 times
Reputation: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by dorado0359 View Post
King Tut didn't claim to be God.
RESPONSE:

Neither did Jesus.
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Old 11-25-2010, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 3,723,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Stop being ridiculous, sans . . . there is nothing about history that IS NOT HEARSAY!!!
RESPONSE:

Are rejecting first person written accounts then?

How about Paul's genuine Epistles?
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