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You say you know history, yet have you read these documents, were you there personally when they were arguing over what to put into these documents and what makes you think that any of those laws are Judeo-Christian laws, unless you were there and participated in the arguments and debates about these documents, you, and no one else living today, have no idea what went on in the minds of the men who wrote these documents. God is not a religion, God is a belief.
There are many books and other documents that describe the goings on during the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
That's how I know what they were debating.
Yes. God is a belief. So "In God We Trust" is not unconstitutional, no matter where it is posted. "In Jesus We Trust" would be.
There are many books and other documents that describe the goings on during the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
That's how I know what they were debating.
Yes. God is a belief. So "In God We Trust" is not unconstitutional, no matter where it is posted. "In Jesus We Trust" would be.
Quite a perspective. And I think you're right.
This country was founded on Judeo-Christian values. But they purposefully omitted explicit references, coz they disdained the ways of the very empire which they broke away from.
There are many books and other documents that describe the goings on during the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
That's how I know what they were debating.
Yes. God is a belief. So "In God We Trust" is not unconstitutional, no matter where it is posted. "In Jesus We Trust" would be.
Nice to have those books and documents that other people have written about the things that happen during the writing of those two documents and I'm not saying there's nothing wrong with them, however those writing cannot tell you what the individuals were thinking at the time they were writing those documents.
As for your baited question about God, we could just as easily change that saying to "In The Creator We Trust" I wonder how you would feel about that.
What makes you think our laws are Judeo-Christian laws?
I get so sick and tired of reading posts and threads from evangelicals or fundamentalist Christians claiming that the United States of America was founded on Christian principles when if they would take the time to educate themselves they wouldn't make such broad statements:
from the Declaration of Independence.
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impelled them to the separation.
And the preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America.
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.
Now I have offered links here for anyone who wishes to read these historic documents and educate yourself before making such broad statements, you will notice that there is no mention of Christianity or any Christian God of any kind in any of these documents.
So in conclusion, this country was not founded on any Christian principles.
Ahhhh...ptsum...One of the best things you taught me.
Since I learned about it last summer, I've thought a lot about it.
Those guys that wrote and signed those documents didn't "found a nation" anyway. The ONLY thing they "founded" was the current government that's in power...after the hostile takeover of "the nation".
Looking back on the evidence...many of those guys did a lot, and said a lot, that went against what they wrote in those documents...when it came to the government officials not pushing their theological concept/agenda anyway. And they definately didn't make sure every person was treated "equal"...even though they wrote that they were.
Since I learned about this from you: Modern History Sourcebook: The Constitution of the Iroquois Confederacy ... the "current" documents haven't had the same "feel" to me that they used to...and they probably never will. Not now that I know the REAL principles, in the REAL document, this nation was founded upon.
BTW...Happy New Year to ya...hope you had a great holiday...the very best to you and yours.
These documents were fought and argued over before the final drafts.
The men who wrote them did so based on Judeo-Christian law.
The great men knew better than to include religion in those documents.
Other than the mention of Natures God and endowed by their Creator.
Again, what religion is God?
The Declaration of Independence is not law; it is a list of grievances and intents.
What parts of our law -- the founding structure of our law, the Constitution (or its predecessor, the Articles of Confederation) are "Judeo-Christian"?
Do tell.
Which articles?
Which sections?
Which clauses?
You keep making this assertion -- well, be specific.
Is it the requirement of a bicameral legislature? Is that Judeo-Christian?
Or is it the requirement that the President be at least 35 years old? Which part of the Bible is that from?
Is it the right to a jury trial? The guarantee of republican government to all states? The restriction that importation of slaves may not be banned before 1808? Do you find any or all of these derived from Judeo-Christianity?
Which part of it is based on a principle of Judeo-Christian law?
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 1 - The Legislature
Section 2 - The House
Section 3 - The Senate
Section 4 - Elections, Meetings
Section 5 - Membership, Rules, Journals, Adjournment
Section 6 - Compensation
Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto
Section 8 - Powers of Congress
Section 9 - Limits on Congress
Section 10 - Powers Prohibited of States
Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 1 - The President
Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments
Section 3 - State of the Union, Convening Congress
Section 4 - Disqualification
Article 3 - The Judicial Branch
Section 1 - Judicial Powers
Section 2 - Trial by Jury, Original Jurisdiction, Jury Trials
Section 3 - Treason
Article 4 - The States
Section 1 - Each State to Honor All Others
Section 2 - State Citizens, Extradition
Section 3 - New States
Section 4 - Republican Government
Article 5 - Amendment
Article 6 - Debts, Supremacy, Oaths
Article 7 - Ratification
Signatories
Amendments
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression
Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms
Amendment 3 - Quartering of Soldiers
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings
Amendment 6 - Right to Speedy Trial, Confrontation of Witnesses
Amendment 7 - Trial by Jury in Civil Cases
Amendment 8 - Cruel and Unusual Punishment
Amendment 9 - Construction of Constitution
Amendment 10 - Powers of the States and People
Amendment 11 - Judicial Limits
Amendment 12 - Choosing the President, Vice President
Amendment 13 - Slavery Abolished
Amendment 14 - Citizenship Rights
Amendment 15 - Race No Bar to Vote
Amendment 16 - Status of Income Tax Clarified
Amendment 17 - Senators Elected by Popular Vote
Amendment 18 - Liquor Abolished
Amendment 19 - Women's Suffrage
Amendment 20 - Presidential, Congressional Terms
Amendment 21 - Amendment 18 Repealed
Amendment 22 - Presidential Term Limits
Amendment 23 - Presidential Vote for District of Columbia
Amendment 24 - Poll Taxes Barred
Amendment 25 - Presidential Disability and Succession
Amendment 26 - Voting Age Set to 18 Years
Amendment 27 - Limiting Changes to Congressional Pay
Ahhhh...ptsum...One of the best things you taught me.
Since I learned about it last summer, I've thought a lot about it.
Those guys that wrote and signed those documents didn't "found a nation" anyway. The ONLY thing they "founded" was the current government that's in power...after the hostile takeover of "the nation".
Looking back on the evidence...many of those guys did a lot, and said a lot, that went against what they wrote in those documents...when it came to the government officials not pushing their theological concept/agenda anyway. And they definately didn't make sure every person was treated "equal"...even though they wrote that they were.
Since I learned about this from you: Modern History Sourcebook: The Constitution of the Iroquois Confederacy ... the "current" documents haven't had the same "feel" to me that they used to...and they probably never will. Not now that I know the REAL principles, in the REAL document, this nation was founded upon.
BTW...Happy New Year to ya...hope you had a great holiday...the very best to you and yours.
Thank you for the holiday greetings GldnRule, and I was working up to that other source....
Thank you for the holiday greetings GldnRule, and I was working up to that other source....
Oooooops! I didn't mean to "steal your thunder" ptsum.
Ever since you hipped me to that, I've been fascinated by it.
I even printed a copy, and put it up in my home office. I've read it dozens of times. I show it to everybody.
The brilliance and great wisdom of Dekanawidah amazes me.
What bothers me though...How had I never heard of him, or that Constitution before? Why don't our schools teach something that important and notable in history classes in this country? That should be REQUIRED teaching in this country. It's a shame.
BUT...now we have the internet...and wise men like you can now teach those whom you would have never been in contact with otherwise, and reach way beyond your immediate group. Cool!
I've heard of English Common law, but for some reason I've never heard of these Judeo-Christian ones, outside of a few mostly stricken down blue laws and prohibitions against sexual acts that make knee pads useful.
I get so sick and tired of reading posts and threads from evangelicals or fundamentalist Christians claiming that the United States of America was founded on Christian principles when if they would take the time to educate themselves they wouldn't make such broad statements:
from the Declaration of Independence.
When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impelled them to the separation.
And the preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America.
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.
Now I have offered links here for anyone who wishes to read these historic documents and educate yourself before making such broad statements, you will notice that there is no mention of Christianity or any Christian God of any kind in any of these documents.
So in conclusion, this country was not founded on any Christian principles.
If it were, perhaps the Constitution would be better understood.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people.
It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
~ John Adams ~
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