This is NOT, I repeat,NOT a nation founded on Christian principles (disciples, Holy Spirit)

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes

Interesting, Murder, theft and rape are generally outlawed by any civilized society, religion has nothing to do with it.

Learn more about the laws that govern the middle east.

[Old Gringo]

Originally Posted by ptsum

I get so sick and tired of reading posts and threads from evangelicals or fundamentalist Christians claiming that the United States of America was founded on Christian principles when if they would take the time to educate themselves they wouldn't make such broad statements:

from the Declaration of Independence.

When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impelled them to the separation.

The Declaration of Independence2


And the preamble of the Constitution of the United States of America.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish Justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.

U.S. CONSTITUTION,

Bill of Rights and Later Amendments


Now I have offered links here for anyone who wishes to read these historic documents and educate yourself before making such broad statements, you will notice that there is no mention of Christianity or any Christian God of any kind in any of these documents.

So in conclusion, this country was not founded on any Christian principles.

But...


Many, many Christians are very comfortable in their delusion that "America is a Christian nation."

Your statement is upsetting to millions of Americans.

[achickenchaser]

Originally Posted by actonbell

The real questions, what did Jesus believe in and how is that reflected within those words?

Can you not answer a simple question?

Would it help if I went first?

Since I'm such I nice guy, I will.

I believe everyone in this country should have the same freedom and rights as the next person, Christians included. I'm not even one of these non-believers who gets his panties in a knot over the "under God" part of the Pledge, despite it being a later add-on.

See how easy that was.

[GldnRule]

Originally Posted by actonbell

And you can't get a crop to grow with out planting a seed, either. The soil is there, the earth is there, but the crop, not there, not without allot of hard work.

The "crops" had been growing for thousands of years before the European Christians came along...and proceded to kill/swindle the people that had long before that "worked the soil", "planted the seeds", and put in the work.

What we call "the founders", IMO, were nothing but thieving land pirates. They came in with greater technology (firearms) and overthrew, Genghis Kahn style...they didn't "found" squat.
Oh, they put a new government in place...in the land they conquered through force...typical of people that overthrow countries throughout history. So I guess you could say in that way they "founded" something.

And IMO, ptsum is right...those guys didn't "found on Christian principles".
There are two main principles of Christianity...passed down through the centuries in the legend of the man know as Jesus the Christ (thus the CHRISTian designation)...and those principles are, "Love Each Other" and "Treat All Others the Way You Would Want To Be Treated".
And they sure didn't do things according to those principles.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by achickenchaser

Can you not answer a simple question?

Would it help if I went first?

Since I'm such I nice guy, I will.

I believe everyone in this country should have the same freedom and rights as the next person, Christians included. I'm not even one of these non-believers who gets his panties in a knot over the "under God" part of the Pledge, despite it being a later add-on.

See how easy that was.

Why was under God added again? I forget.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by GldnRule

The "crops" had been growing for thousands of years before the European Christians came along...and proceded to kill/swindle the people that had long before that "worked the soil", "planted the seeds", and put in the work.

What we call "the founders", IMO, were nothing but thieving land pirates. They came in with greater technology (firearms) and overthrew, Genghis Kahn style...they didn't "found" squat.
Oh, they put a new government in place...in the land they conquered through force...typical of people that overthrow countries throughout history. So I guess you could say in that way they "founded" something.

And IMO, ptsum is right...those guys didn't "found on Christian principles".
There are two main principles of Christianity...passed down through the centuries in the legend of the man know as Jesus the Christ (thus the CHRISTian designation)...and those principles are, "Love Each Other" and "Treat All Others the Way You Would Want To Be Treated".
And they sure didn't do things according to those principles.

"Book of Eli" great movie. I love picking wild blackberries myself and they make a great pie.

"typical of people that overthrow countries throughout history"

It never changes. Based on Biblical history, I doubt it ever will. I think they should have stuck with drawing pretty pictures on cave walls. May be then, people today would have understood them better.

PS: I believe they tried to do the right thing. However, I believe they were human too.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by actonbell

Do people not realize that when a person dies, their spirit leaves their body, therefore this life, ceases to be an issue?

That belief is only a manifestation of the desperation to not die, but to go on to some fictional afterlife.

When the body dies, the brain dies, and with that, the individual and every memory they have so ceases to exist. No spirit, no soul, just a dead body, end of that persons story.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by Old Gringo

But...


Many, many Christians are very comfortable in their delusion that "America is a Christian nation."

Your statement is upsetting to millions of Americans.

Again, shows the danger of religion, as reality should not upset millions of people. It is what it is, deal with it.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by actonbell

Why was under God added again? I forget.

Pledge of Allegiance and its "under God" phrase

There was a campaign by the Knights of Columbus during the McCarthy scare to add these words. The words were added as an anti-communist affirmation - the thought being that a communist could not say these words so anyone who would not say the pledge with these words could be blacklisted.

[Ellis Bell]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

That belief is only a manifestation of the desperation to not die, but to go on to some fictional afterlife.

When the body dies, the brain dies, and with that, the individual and every memory they have so ceases to exist. No spirit, no soul, just a dead body, end of that persons story.

Many psychologist and philosophers would disagree with you and so do I.
My body, my mind and my spirit, my spirit is the foundation of my strength. It is what keeps putting up a good fight, when my mind and my body fail me.

And yes, Christ is there, leading me every step of the way, less I falter. He picks me up and put's me back on my path and I embrace Him.

You can't touch this. No one can.