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Old 09-14-2011, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
15,911 posts, read 12,465,198 times
Reputation: 5069

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
No, you do not control this. You can leave it at that, I shall continue. And you do not speak for everyone, thus you cannot say I impress no one, my email box is proof of that. You simply cannot handle that you cannot understand or master.

And that is another Atheist charactheristic that is proof of God; they know they cannot master God. Because; you know, Atheist have a " Lord it over" mentality. They like to be lord over things, expecially conversations. Their utter inability to cancel out belief in God, that failure is proof of God.
Nonsense I say. You're making a big generalization re the "lord it over" comment. Stereotyping people in such a broad way can lead to bigotry and hatred. Maybe you are spending too much time mopping floors and not getting out enough?.

 
Old 09-14-2011, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,904,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Nonsense I say. You're making a big generalization re the "lord it over" comment. Stereotyping people in such a broad way can lead to bigotry and hatred. Maybe you are spending too much time mopping floors and not getting out enough?.

Well I agree, I changed my statement to " Certain Atheist have a Lord it over mentality", I know that much is true. And I do get out, my girl took me to see Herbie Hancok not long ago, man- he jammed the box!
 
Old 09-14-2011, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,904,912 times
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So how is Atheism proof of God. Well God " Needs to prove himself to the world", we all agree with that. Yet God has lengendary patience, he knows that he will prove himself ( and by the way, read the bible, he will prove himself in such a dramatic way that this world has never seen or imagined), he knows that he will allow every human being that ever lived to see him, all at the same time too!

Hes just setting that up now. Allowing the seeds of doubt and unbelief to fester and germinate within humanity, and he needs workers in that vineyard. Which is where Atheist come in. All political runners need campaign workers. Simular in a small sense, God employs more than just believers to enlist his multi-purpose plans for humanity. He plans on converting us all.

So the Atheist movement itself, is " Inovating proof of God."
 
Old 09-14-2011, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,363,010 times
Reputation: 5054
Well, at least we share an appreciation for Herbie Hancock...but your characterization of atheism and atheists is totally off base. As an ex-Christian, I wonder how you can be so arrogant as to think you understand the mind of your god and his plans.

Is not believing in Tinker Bell proof that she exists? Is not believing in unicorns proof that they exist? Etc, etc, etc. An extremely flawed and ludicrous argument.

Last edited by catman; 09-14-2011 at 12:45 PM..
 
Old 09-14-2011, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,904,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
Well, at least we share an appreciation for Herbie Hancock...but your characterization of atheism and atheists is totally off base. As an ex-Christian, I wonder how you can be so arrogant as to think you understand the mind of your god and his plans.

As a non-christian, I have never understood God, and I do not know him. My understanding of him is growing yearly; and I have not progressed beyond that point. I do not have his Holy Spirit, I am not religious, and belong to no church, but I am able to read. Gods plans are listed throughout the bible, I simply read them, agree with them, and believe them.

Beginning to understand the mind of someone, is not arrogance; and being on the path of beginning to understand God, is not arrogance; its called the beginning of wisdom.

And Herbie Hancok is my favorite musician, I just like the mans music. He can play that piano man.
 
Old 09-14-2011, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,904,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post

Is not believing in Tinker Bell proof that she exists? Is not believing in unicorns proof that they exist? Etc, etc, etc. An extremely flawed and ludicrous argument.

No, its just happenstance comparrison that relys on the wisdom of the comparer to be able to discern the difference between fact and fable. You just happen to depend on the comparrison of the God fact- to be a fable. I just happen to depend on it to be a fact, the real difference then falls on our wisdom in discernment. How we, as individuals, determine things.


In my view, its is astounding that God designed the human consciousness, to be able to exist in both worlds, fact and fable. Through fable we have seen the creative mind of man create some very wonderful fables and make great motion pictures out of them; God gave this! And its not ludicrous, its marvelous- and it was deliberate!

Even fable is unique proof of God, in that he gave humanity a consciousness that could create " our own worlds, if we wish." In this manner, we get even closer to God, because HE has a " Fable- listic Consciousness", but he brings his fantasys into creative reality.
 
Old 09-14-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,123,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
No, its just happenstance comparrison that relys on the wisdom of the comparer to be able to discern the difference between fact and fable.
Well, my irony meter just exploded.

Now I have to get a new one.

 
Old 09-14-2011, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
2,756 posts, read 5,264,125 times
Reputation: 4606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
Now know the ultimate intent of God, which is unstoppable, is to give away salvation to BOTH believer and unbeliever, hes not willing to leave anyone out; God DOES NOT WANT, and certainly has not willed that ANY human will perish in eternity! Atheist are NOT doomed in biblical revelation, the bible is a book of Salvation, not condemnation of certain humans. This is what the great grace of God really is all about; he Loves, and UTTERLY Loves, ALL of humanity. Gods government is NOT a two party government; its not going to be decided by belief and unbelief for entry or citizenship.

Why would God use all his energy to create this physical universe, and NOT use even MORE of his energy into the total salvation of all of humanity?

I don't care how ANY of your children have turned out; they still are yours! They came from you, and YOU were responsible for their development in their early stages. Now why certain believers in God, do NOT understand that this same responsibility falls on God himself; I just don't know. God is complettely responsible for ALL of humanity. There is no exception to this; NONE! And he designed a complette plan of salvation, in which even the responsibility for sin AND unbelief, has been covered!

And thats where Jesus comes in. Jesus, the proof of God; and anti-christ; still proof of God! How can this be?

Ya gotta live this guy! He's got real chutzpah. He just goes merrily along, grandly and pedantically extolling his beliefs, while blithely failing to adress or even recognize any of the myriad logical rebuttals to his claims.
When I'm reading his stuff I can almost picture in my mind's eye that "Stepford Wives" glaze that he must have in his eyes.
I'm almost envious. I've always wanted to have that kind of Belief in a Surpeme Being.
But my darn logic and common sense just keep getting in the way.
 
Old 09-14-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
13,892 posts, read 9,665,267 times
Reputation: 2401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
And you do not speak for everyone, thus you cannot say I impress no one, my email box is proof of that.
They don't appear to have given you many reps.
 
Old 09-14-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Warren, Michigan
5,298 posts, read 3,904,912 times
Reputation: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Ya gotta live this guy! He's got real chutzpah. He just goes merrily along, grandly and pedantically extolling his beliefs, while blithely failing to adress or even recognize any of the myriad logical rebuttals to his claims.
When I'm reading his stuff I can almost picture in my mind's eye that "Stepford Wives" glaze that he must have in his eyes.
I'm almost envious. I've always wanted to have that kind of Belief in a Surpeme Being.
But my darn logic and common sense just keep getting in the way.

It is my logic and common sense that spurs me on. I totally depend on it, need it. For example, my logic and common sense tells me that life had to come from Life! I just can't logically firgure out any other way for things to exist. I implore all the common sense I have in comming to the conclusion that humanity is not the result of Life somehow mythically beginning, and then evolving from things far inferior to it.

I view it in this manner of logic;

Life came from an unknown source which had to be powerful. It developed itself from this mystery into planets that developed over billions of years through evolution. These planets continued to evolve until they self manufactored chemicals. As these chemicals evolved, they developed a plan to create more complex living forms far superior to themselves. Thus began a miraculous event of circumstances that eventually created the bare essentials of human life being possible.

This senerio defys my logic and common sense, so logically there must be another senerio which is more sensible;

That being Life came from a life giver. Superior existence comming from a superior designer and creator. Sensible and logical.
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