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I will generally sit down, cross-legged, on my front porch and listen to what they have to say. (There's a locked iron gate defending my porch, so they're still standing on the walkway.)
Then I will suggest that it is MY turn to tell them about my own beliefs. So far I've had no takers.
-- Nighteyes
PS: Over the past five or so years I have also noted a significant DECREASE in the number of bell-ringers. Do you suppose I've been "black-listed"?? (One can always hope...)
I open the door, thank them for their concern for my spiritual well-being, tell them that I'm really not interested, and bid them good day.
In situations where I can't leave (having someone sit next to me on an airplane who thinks I'm conversion fodder, for instance), I politely make it clear that my religion isn't a subject that's up for debate. If that doesn't work, I make no excuses for getting rude.
PS: Over the past five or so years I have also noted a significant DECREASE in the number of bell-ringers. Do you suppose I've been "black-listed"?? (One can always hope...)
-- N.E.
Seems I remember seeing a mention that JW's had a black list (hostile households perhaps), as I haven't had a JW knock in years. One can hope
Seems I remember seeing a mention that JW's had a black list (hostile households perhaps), as I haven't had a JW knock in years. One can hope
Back in my old life style I used to enjoy JWs. But they never seemed to return after about a 2 minute conversation. which went sort of like this.
"Am I ever happy to see you guys. Your the First witnesses that have spoken to me since I was kicked out of the Kingdom Hall in Brunswick. Does this mean I am no longer shunned?"
I do not get insulted, people are usualy just trying to be nice and save me from what they believe is a hell and maybe they are right? who knows, but no, I never get offeded unless they get mean about it, a few have
I do not get insulted, people are usualy just trying to be nice and save me from what they believe is a hell and maybe they are right? who knows, but no, I never get offeded unless they get mean about it, a few have
We just had a pair knock on our door - first time in a very long time. My wife answered, and politely told them we're atheists and to have a good day, then sent them on their way.
I have had a couple of ladies come to my home I really find pleasant. We don't agree on religion per se, but it is nice to exchange ideas. I used to not give these people the time of day, but I have softened.
I just want to be sure I'm clear on the intent of your words. So you're saying that a Jew who observes the Sabbath properly, and therefore cannot write, or drive on that day each week, has no right to do so? And if a "test" happens to come along on the day of the Sabbath, the Jew must suffer the consequences of not taking that test?
Exactly yes. I see no reason to give people exceptions to rules everyone else has to follow just because their personal hobby/imagination precludes them for it. If someone said "Sorry can I do the test tomorrow only I usually play golf on a Friday" you would likely laugh at him. Yet somehow "Sorry can I do the test tomorrow as my imaginary friend likes me to stay at home on that day" gets a free pass?
If the state runs an example for children and that exam falls on a certain day, then that is when the children have to do it. There can of course be exceptions to this on valid grounds like health and so forth. But making up an imaginary friend and pretending that friend has an objection to the exam scheduling... no way... no how.... no thanks. You do not turn up: You fail. Simple as.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theflipflop
I wonder what type of character your godless moral compass leads you to?
Beyond the scope of this thread, but you are free to start another one and invite me to it if there are any questions on my current moral position that you wish to explore. More than happy to make the time for you. Or perhaps just peruse my posting history as you will find I have commented on my position of everything from politics, to incest, to abortion and much more.
I just want to be sure I'm clear on the intent of your words. So you're saying that a Jew who observes the Sabbath properly, and therefore cannot write, or drive on that day each week, has no right to do so? And if a "test" happens to come along on the day of the Sabbath, the Jew must suffer the consequences of not taking that test?
Funny, but I would say you are correct. I've been faced with this situation more times than I can count in my life. And guess what, each time, I follow the words of Hashem, even if there "appears" to be negative consequences for doing so.
There are many types of tests in life - some literal, some less literal. It's what strengthens the individual's character. I wonder what type of character your godless moral compass leads you to?
Are you implying that you need to have a religion to be moral? There are atheists and non-religious people with high moral standards and religious people who do incredibly immoral things. I won't go through the classic list because it's always highly debated (Hitler, Einstein, etc.) but it's pretty safe to say there is a lot of good and evil that happens both in the name of religion and independent of religion.
If following Hashem is what works for you, then great. But who's to say that works for everyone? I'm not sure if you do knock on people's doors, but in the case of those who do, they are assuming that everyone will be as successful with their personal moral system as they are.
However, let's take the JW's for example--a group of people that are known for knocking on doors. I studied with the JW's for about two years. When I was studying, they did some incredibly kind things for me. They taught me sign language and deaf-blindness independence skills when I was deaf-blind. They often had me over and fed me cause they saw that I was underweight. They knew how badly I wanted to be independent so they drove me around to search for jobs and interpreted for me. Once I got a job, they did the same for an apartment search. We also just hung out and had a good time sometimes. For example, they invited me to a festival with another deaf-blind friend and acted as SSP's (interpreter-guides who explain everything that's going on).
All of this was with a catch, though. I had to be studying the Bible, attending the Kingdom Hall regularly, and attending the assemblies. I had to move out of my current living situation because I was sharing a living space with a man before marriage. That is part of what motivated them to help me find a job/apartment. So was what they did incredibly kind? Yes, of course. But there was a condition attached to it. That doesn't cancel all the support they gave me, but it does tell us a lot of what religion does. Religion encourages many people to do kind things, but it comes with strings attached. It makes people nicer, but it also causes people to try to control other people's lives--whether or not they mean to.
I realized this fully when I did some things that goes against their theology to improve my chronic pain. I did acupuncture, which they see as "spiritism", and ever since, they haven't talked to me once. They have sent me one single email in 9 months, to tell me that I need to come back to Jehovah. These are the people that were helping me day in and day out and they completely cut off any communication. That's when I realized that all of this was part of the "love-bombing" nature of religions like the JW's. It was completely dependent on the fact that they envisioned me becoming a baptized Jehovah's Witness. I don't mean to say their actions weren't heartfelt and genuine, but their religion becomes a part of everything they do, for better or for worse. Often times, for people who think that they are just developing real friendships, it's for worse. It informs all their actions, and all their feelings, and all their relationships. When they knock on your and you say "yes", this is basically what you agree to, whether or not you realize it.
If someone were to knock on your door, and tell you their religion will save you, or is better than your religion or no religion, how would you feel? Wouldn't you feel like Judaism suits you better? Maybe you feel like Hashem is the most reliable law to live by, but there are other people who feel just as strongly about another set of morals, whether written in the Bible or Torah or just a result of their own experiences and thought processes. What makes you think you have the place to judge others as inferior just because they operate by a different set of morals? Don't you realize they could be doing the same to you?
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