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As will probably be demonstrated by your replies here, I think it depends on who you ask.
Some Christians like to believe it is a Christian nation, and feel strongly that we should fight to keep it that way.
Of course non-christians disagree.
In some respects I don't mind the idea of it being a Christian nation, but although I consider myself a Christian, I don't agree with some of the things that some other Christians believe. So, I do understand why some folks see the need to keep church and state seperate.
I do believe our founding fathers set some things in place to allow for change and that was probably very wise of them.
I'm not sure how long this thread will last. We recently had one thread that combined religion and politics locked, so don't be suprised.
Personally, I think in our country religion and politics are connected, so I can understand why some of us might want to talk about the two together. (just my 2 cents)
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and to our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America.
Now I want to know just where in this preamble to the Constitution of the United States of America does it say that any of these rights and laws were given to us by any god? Just in case you have a problem with that here's a copy of both the Constitution United States and the Bill of Rights, which is what our laws and freedoms are based on and nowhere is there any mention of any kind of god, Christian are otherwise.
I am certainly not saying this "proves" anything. But I am curious. Does anyone here know why they put "In God We Trust" on the dollar bill and how long it has been there? I am not a history buff by any means, and I admit I don't know as much about our government as I should. But I am really just curious about this.
Some of the Christians I know, do seem to have a strong believe that this IS a Christian nation. And I have seen arguments where they showed some things supporting their belief. Cant' remember them right now, but I am guessing somebody who believs that will come along and share something.
What is our identity? Americans documents say our rights are from God and our laws seem to be Christian based.
What say you?
America is a technologicially advanced western nation. And these nations are generally becoming more secular as people are giving increasingly less importance to religion.
I think we have already had two or three hostile threads covering this topic. If you want to live under a theocratic government, I would like to recommend that you move to Iran and apply for citizenship. We here in the USA have had a clearly defined separation of church and state since 1791, when the Bill of Rights was passed. This has been sustained over and over again in the ensuing 221 years, and yet, you start a thread as if there was some question about it.
BTW, the word "God" does not appear anywhere in the Constitution or any of the Amendments, even those that were never adopted.
I have no idea why you think out laws "seem" to be Christian based. In a previous thread, we covered many of the 613 laws in the Old Testament, but nobody wanted to propose legislation to adopt them as laws. (Personally, I think men were afraid to propose laws allowing them to sell women because their wives would have kicked them out of the house for doing so.)
While we're on the subject, do you eat pork?
America is a secular nation that has historically been governed by Christians with Christian values. Only in the past 30 years has atheism and secular humanism become a significant political force in America. America has never been a Christian nation in the way that many European countries were, but it was no doubt more Christian than it is today simply because of the convictions of those in government.
I am certainly not saying this "proves" anything. But I am curious. Does anyone here know why they put "In God We Trust" on the dollar bill and how long it has been there? I am not a history buff by any means, and I admit I don't know as much about our government as I should. But I am really just curious about this.
Some of the Christians I know, do seem to have a strong believe that this IS a Christian nation. And I have seen arguments where they showed some things supporting their belief. Cant' remember them right now, but I am guessing somebody who believs that will come along and share something.
Just because the Christian religion is predominate in this country DOES NOT mean that it's a Christian country.
All it means is you guys outnumber the rest of us.
All religions were meant to be equal under our constitution. So, basically that gives Christians no more right to push their agenda on this nation than it gives any other religion.
Religion has no place in politics. The middle east is a prime example of what happens when the two are combined.
As for just why "in God we trust" is on our currency, who really gives a rat's rear end? Just because it's there doesn't mean we are a Christian nation.
I am certainly not saying this "proves" anything. But I am curious. Does anyone here know why they put "In God We Trust" on the dollar bill and how long it has been there? I am not a history buff by any means, and I admit I don't know as much about our government as I should. But I am really just curious about this.
Some of the Christians I know, do seem to have a strong believe that this IS a Christian nation. And I have seen arguments where they showed some things supporting their belief. Cant' remember them right now, but I am guessing somebody who believs that will come along and share something.
In answer to your questions: The Pledge of Allegiance. " under God" was added in 1954. The pledge has been modified four times previously. The first being in 1892 and goes like this. I pledge allegiance to my flag and the Republic for which it stands one Wu nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. And then changed again in 1923 to read. I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. And then in 1924 to read. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all. And then in 1954 to read. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Now as for the money and the " In God We Trust". It was adopted as official motto of the United States in 1956. "In God We Trust" has appeared on U.S. coins since 1864 and on paper currency since 1957. The idea of putting the phrase on U.S. currency was conceived by Samuel P. Chase, the U.S. Treasury Secretary under Abraham Lincoln.
Under the Royal Higher Court of Lord Jesus who rules over All the Nations of the world and in an apostolic anointed blessing of Christ, ..Every Nation that has Christians in their population , and the leaders are tolerant of Christian in their population , and even through the Spirit , the Lord can liven ideas were Christian will be blessed and their acceptance is enhanced in any Nation than , To the Lord `` This nation belongs to me and my Authority and I will bless that nation and it will be a Christian nation with an apostolic blessing`` ... If a nation rejects Christians and tries to get rid of them and does a good job of ridding of Christians than a death cycle will come on that nation and the Christians who live there will only survive if fear is rejected .... Christian Nations are were God has a plan were victory is fact for God people....
GTBH...words men write and agree to at some given time, or laws and regulations that are drawn up and determined by so-called "officials" to be "the rules"...doesn't mean squaaaaaaat, as to "the facts on the ground".
People write up lots of stuff that is useless to change "the way things REALLY are". Things change, especially when it comes to what "the law" is determined to be...plus, people go against or just don't follow the law.
"THE ACTUAL REALITY OF THE WAY THINGS REALLY WERE/ARE", is the TRUE determinant of what is and what isn't.
The, "It's Been Written By Men As The Law" argument, is worthless to determine what the "real deal" is.
By THAT standard...every religious person could point to the "laws" written in their "documents", or point to what the laws were at any time, and declare, "This is how it REALLY was/is!".
This country (since the hostile take-over from the people it REALLY belongs to) IS a Christian Nation...REGARDLESS of what any words on paper have been written and agreed to by some group of "officials" as to what it does or doesn't have to be. MOF, if anything, the fact that "the law" states that it doesn't have to be...but IT HAS BEEN, AND STILL IS anyway...proves it even more.
That some are bothered by that, doesn't change THE WAY IT REEEEEEEALLY IS.
But, GldnRule, the same argument could be applied to race equality in saying that "the real deal" is that this country is a white anglo-saxon country and that any and all interpretations by some group of "officials" doesn't change the way things really are.
Even now, where white anglo-saxons are becoming the minority, one could still argue, using your logic, that this country, regardless of what any document says, is really and truly a white anglo-saxon country.
The problem with this frame of thinking, in my opinion, is that it gives the minority no chance to ever become an integral part of a society even if their numbers become greater than that of the majority. One could also argue that in today's America, the country is still run by that same white anglo-saxonism that has been around since our founding - even as their grasp on being the majority shrinks.
So, for example, in 50 years when the Latin American and African American populations take over as the majority, should our laws still reflect the way our anglo-saxon roots REALLY are or should they reflect a more homogenous and equal society?
Regardless of our roots and our origins, we have to be prepared to move on as populations and societal dynamics change. Sure, one could argue that this country really was a Christian nation in so much as what the overwhelming majority of the people believed throughout our history. But things are changing and it is no longer necessarily that way. Squelching that change and that shifting dynamic in favor of the way things "REALLY ARE" is no better than saying you are squelching it in favor of the way things "REALLY SHOULD BE" - which then adds a completely different perspective to the way you approach the situation.
Once we begin to go down the road of things "REALLY SHOULD BE" this way, progress becomes limited, if not completely left for dead. This is very evident in the way the dialect goes in our current government. Both sides demand that things are a certain way and therefore things really should be this way or that way.
So, whatever the foundations of this country were originally, does not mean that it should be that way forever - which is why I detest so many socially conservative viewpoints. Without progress while desperately trying to cling to the history of a bygone era, we let the rest of the world pass us by as we remain stuck in a modality of what the past is/was and what it SHOULD say about our future rather than what it DOES say about our future.
What is our identity? Americans documents say our rights are from God and our laws seem to be Christian based.
What say you?
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. - Treaty of Tripoli 1796.
What is a Christian nation? It is a nation built on the Christian principles of freedom to choose, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of conscious, a free nation where people are free to believe or not or free to practice religion or not.
Let me help the OP out: Christian nation vs Non-Christian nation.
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