Did a World-Wide Flood in Noah's day Happen? (translation, Neanderthal, miracle)
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I recall seeing a National Geographic documentary that discussed the alleged flood and the "theory" that pangea split off to what we know as the main continents today. The rivers from the deep were supposed to be pushing water 20km (14 miles) into the atmosphere (that is twice the altitude of jet liners) and this apparently caused the "continental drift" of continents to speed away from Africa at a ridiculous speed of 40km/h.
Anything this catastrophic would have ended all life in one foul swoop including captain Noah on his wooden surf board. NOTHING would have survived continents moving away at such speeds.
The story went on to suggest that the western highlands of the Americas happened when the land masses suddenly stopped and the inertia still there caused land to accumulate as mountains (something like sliding on a loose carpet in a cartoon) causing folds in the land and forming mountains.
Well IF that happened, this planet would still be uninhabitable, there would be zero life.
What you have here is a merging of these YEC postulations and none of them match the evidence CLEARLY seen in the geological records from all over the world.
Of course the documentary discussed the implausibility of this postulation and shot it down with similar arguments I am making. This was in the early 80's. A lot more info is available since then.
No matter how the AiG and other folk want to hold onto their silly beliefs, the evidence we see outweighs all that postulation and they KNOW just like was mentioned here, for some, w/o the flood being true, the whole biblical storyline and all falls flat on its face.
It really is a last ditch attempt to try and keep the christian faith still relevant. Grasping at straws.
Back in the late 70's and early 80's, we did not have the internet and unless you made an effort to buy or borrow books, telling lies for jesus was an easy con to pull off. Nowadays, the truth cannot be hidden from the rational thinkers entering the adult world and that is why we have sites like AiG, Conservapedia etc. trying desperately to still misinform the populace.
TBH, I never once met a YEC here in Africa as we all learned real science. No one took the Genesis book literally even as believers. Pretty hard to fool folk when you can take an hour or three drive from the city in any direction and see the wonders of nature and a very old earth. I grew up just 10 miles from the mighty Victoria Waterfalls. Even as a kid you knew the gorges were formed over many, many years.
The Devil's Cataract (the newest forming of the next gorge) is exactly (give or take an inch) where it was 48 years ago when I left Livingstone. What you folk may not know is that the falls does dry up from time to time and as such we can accurately measure with our sophisticated tools the erosion factor and then extrapolate it back in time.
SeekerSA, I keep hearing from people like you that if the continents sped away from each other at 40 km per hour that it would kill everyone and everything on the planet. This reminds me of the scientiss who said that if a car went faster than 30 miles per hour it would with the skin of your body just as autos were being invented. Where is your proof that this would occur?
Pnuema, ever hear of hybernation? Lack of sunshine, tossing ship, cold, God's intervention, the animals system most likely slowed way down. Probably didn't have to feed as much as under normal conditions.
Ps. We Are not talking about every different kind of dog. Just a pair of dogs. A pair of horses. A pair of elephants. You get the drift right?
Pnuema, ever hear of hybernation? Lack of sunshine, tossing ship, cold, God's intervention, the animals system most likely slowed way down. Probably didn't have to feed as much as under normal conditions.
Ps. We Are not talking about every different kind of dog. Just a pair of dogs. A pair of horses. A pair of elephants. You get the drift right?
... “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”Mark 10:27
I'm still trying to figure out how a man and his family manage to exist in a smelly boat with ONE window for ventilation for months on end. Oh, "miracle" you say? Oh ok. I'll buy that one.
I think it is interesting that not once do any of the writers of the Old Testament or New Testament consider Noah or the flood to be a cute story not based on fact. I'll just quote the New Testament since it would be too many verses if the OT were quoted:
Mat_24:37 For even as the days of Noah, thus shall be the presence of the Son of Mankind."
Mat_24:38 For as they were in those days before the deluge, masticating and drinking and marrying and taking in marriage until the day on which Noah entered into the ark,
Luk_3:36 of Cainan, of Arphaxad, of Shem, of Noah, of Lamech,
Luk_17:26 And according as it occurred in the days of Noah, thus will it be in the days of the Son of Mankind also."
Luk_17:27 They ate, they drank, they married, they took out in marriage, until the day on which Noah entered into the ark, and the deluge came and destroys them all."
Heb_11:7 By faith Noah, being apprized concerning that which is not as yet being observed, being pious, constructs an ark for the salvation of his house, through which he condemns the world, and became an enjoyer of the allotment of the righteousness which accords with faith."
1Pe_3:20 He heralds to those once stubborn, when the patience of God awaited in the days of Noah while the ark was being constructed, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were brought safely through water,
2Pe_2:5 and spares not the ancient world, but guards Noah, an eighth, a herald of righteousness, bringing a deluge on the world of the irreverent;"
Here is an interesting article on the Grand Canyon proving a world-wide flood:
For the record I really do believe there was a world-wide flood.
There is evidence that a large localized flood occurred around the Black Sea area many millenium ago. This would have seemed liked the whole world to the locals including Noah. So did a large localized flood happen? Very possible. Did the water cover the entire earth? Not likely. Where is all that water now? Forget about how all those animals, including those strange ones from Australia, got stuffed onto that arc.
Last edited by GoodToBeHome; 03-08-2012 at 06:48 AM..
Pnuema, ever hear of hybernation? Lack of sunshine, tossing ship, cold, God's intervention, the animals system most likely slowed way down. Probably didn't have to feed as much as under normal conditions.
Oh so now we get to make assumptions in order for the story to work literally. Any support that animals that do not hibernate, hibernated?
21And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
Does not sound like they hibernated now does it? As Noah was to take all food for them. Sound to me like if the food was gathered it was gathered to be eaten.
So care to tell me how much hay 1 horse can eat in a year and where it was stored?
Oh never mind I looked it up myself. 1 horse eats 12-15 pounds of hay a day, that is between 4,380-5,475 pound of hay a year. That is for 1 horse not two and I never even mentioned how much food 1 elephant would eat in a year.
So tell me where did they store all this food that Noah was suppose to have taken into the ark?
Quote:
Ps. We Are not talking about every different kind of dog. Just a pair of dogs. A pair of horses. A pair of elephants. You get the drift right?
Ya I get your drift and already showed you your numbers do not add up.
What your telling us is that 2 dogs produced all the different kinds of dogs we have today. What did they breed with? Did one of the dogs breed with a sheep and that's how we got a sheep dog.
Common there is no evidence that 2 dogs of the same kind can bare a different breed then what they are. A collie if breed with a collie will produce a collie. Two collies do not birth a bit bull.
That aside the scriptures themselves tell us that it is about every sort of animal.
They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort
If it is only a pairs of dogs, a pair of horses, a pair of elephants (not to mention dino's) then it would also mean a pair of birds.
But alas there were different KIND of birds on the ark. Raven and dove ring any bells.
SeekerSA, I keep hearing from people like you that if the continents sped away from each other at 40 km per hour that it would kill everyone and everything on the planet. This reminds me of the scientiss who said that if a car went faster than 30 miles per hour it would with the skin of your body just as autos were being invented. Where is your proof that this would occur?
You really like comparing apples with chainsaws don't you?
Lets see over the past 10 years we had two minor hiccups of subduction leading to two tsunamis killing hundreds of thousands. What the YEC propose is exponentially (may have to look up the meaning of that word) greater and you expect folk to accept that such forces and cataclysmic events would not wipe out everything? By that I mean everything far outweighing your mythical flood to the extent the planet would be totally uninhabitable.
Continents moving away at such speeds would expose the seas to molten magma boiling off the oceans, earthquakes of magnitudes off the Richter scale.
Now go look at the oceanography where the seabeds show (thanks to ultrasound and satellite mapping) a gradual movement and NOT some massive scar.
Let me introduce you to my other hometown Bulawayo and the Matopos (Matoba) hills. You see there we have balancing rocks. These are the results of millions if not billions of years of wind erosion. None of these would be where they currently are if there were a catastrophic deluge, tsunami, or earthquakes. (click link to see more pics)
The rocks are granite (I am sure you know this is a very hard rock) Do you know how granite is formed? Look it up. Our earth's crust is mostly granite.
How about these caves in the same area, paintings dated way before your alleged fludd including stone age artefacts.
You see, I have lived in three countries and visited many others. You really need to come to Africa and SEE the evidence of an old earth.
These formations could not have reformed in 4500 years after a deluge or great earthquakes.
How about this feature known as the Titanic Rock in Clarens where my mother grew up.
Different rock, this is highly compressed sandstone (not granite) I have climbed this three times. Can you see the layers? This area of SA is rich in dino fossils and is part of the Maluti (a subset of the Drakensberg) mountains.
You see, Southern Africa is not really prone to earthquakes and I only felt one tremor when I was about 10 and that was like a 2-3 on the Richter scale in Bulawayo and was anyway aftershock of an earthquake that happened somewhere far away (cannot remember the details)
NONE of these features simply happened in the last 6000 years.
FYI the Matopos and the rock above are all higher than 4000 feet above sea level.
We have some of the deepest gold mines in the world and have recovered by chance fossils kilometres below the surface.
But of course there is ample evidence in North America saying the same thing as here in Africa. You just need to educate yourself.
There is evidence that a large localized flood occurred around the Black Sea area many millenium ago. This would have seemed liked the whole world to the locals including Noah. So did a large localized flood happen? Very possible. Did the water cover the entire earth? Not likely. Where is all that water now? Forget about how all those animals, including those strange ones from Australia, got stuffed onto that arc.
A localized flood would make much more sense. A world wide flood has far to many problems with it. However I still maintain that it should not be read literally.
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... “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”Mark 10:27
