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Pnuema, ever hear of hybernation? Lack of sunshine, tossing ship, cold, God's intervention, the animals system most likely slowed way down. Probably didn't have to feed as much as under normal conditions.
Ah!!! Now we're getting to the hot stuff....it was all done by .....Magik!!!!
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Ps. We Are not talking about every different kind of dog. Just a pair of dogs. A pair of horses. A pair of elephants. You get the drift right?
So then...you believe in evolution.
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Originally Posted by GoodToBeHome
There is evidence that a large localized flood occurred around the Black Sea area many millenium ago. .
...but it didn't cover the whole planet and it didn't kill all life save those on the ark. So when the Bible says that it did, the Bible is wrong. You are obviously not a Bible literalist.
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Originally Posted by pneuma
Oh so now we get to make assumptions in order for the story to work literally. Any support that animals that do not hibernate, hibernated?
21And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
Does not sound like they hibernated now does it? As Noah was to take all food for them. Sound to me like if the food was gathered it was gathered to be eaten.
So care to tell me how much hay 1 horse can eat in a year and where it was stored?
Oh never mind I looked it up myself. 1 horse eats 12-15 pounds of hay a day, that is between 4,380-5,475 pound of hay a year. That is for 1 horse not two and I never even mentioned how much food 1 elephant would eat in a year.
So tell me where did they store all this food that Noah was suppose to have taken into the ark?
Ya I get your drift and already showed you your numbers do not add up.
What your telling us is that 2 dogs produced all the different kinds of dogs we have today. What did they breed with? Did one of the dogs breed with a sheep and that's how we got a sheep dog.
Common there is no evidence that 2 dogs of the same kind can bare a different breed then what they are. A collie if breed with a collie will produce a collie. Two collies do not birth a bit bull.
That aside the scriptures themselves tell us that it is about every sort of animal.
They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort
If it is only a pairs of dogs, a pair of horses, a pair of elephants (not to mention dino's) then it would also mean a pair of birds.
But alas there were different KIND of birds on the ark. Raven and dove ring any bells.
I'm still trying to figure out how a man and his family manage to exist in a smelly boat with ONE window for ventilation for months on end. Oh, "miracle" you say? Oh ok. I'll buy that one.
InsaneInDaMembrane,
Here is something interesting for you concerning "ONE window":
"Genesis 6:16 A window shalt thou make - What this was cannot be absolutely
ascertained. The original word צהר tsohar signifies clear or bright; the
Septuagint translate it by επωυναγων, “collecting, thou shalt make the
ark,” which plainly shows they did not understand the word as signifying
any kind of window or light. Symmacbus translates it διαφανες, a
transparency; and Aquila, μεσημβρινον, the noon. Jonathan ben Uzziel
supposes that it was a precious luminous stone which Noah, by Divine
command, brought from the river Pison. It is probably a word which
should be taken in a collective sense, signifying apertures for air and light.
"In a cubit shalt thou finish it above - Probably meaning that the roof
should be left a cubit broad at the apex or top, and that it should not
terminate in a sharp ridge. But this place is variously understood." (Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible.)
So it might have been an opening 18 inches high that ran the length of the ship on top of the ship.
Ah!!! Now we're getting to the hot stuff....it was all done by .....Magik!!!!
So then...you believe in evolution.
No, I believe in Magik.
In one breeding a new type of dog can be bred. For instance I have a chihuahua and I have a chihuahua/poodle combination called a chipoo. All it took was one breeding to get the new type of dog. All the dogs today are from 2 pairs of dogs taken on the ark. It's magik. There is no evolution. Just magik. You wave a magik wand over the dogs when they are having sex and WHALA! a new breed!
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...but it didn't cover the whole planet and it didn't kill all life save those on the ark. So when the Bible says that it did, the Bible is wrong. You are obviously not a Bible literalist.
We've already covered this. The world-wide flood of Noah's day was world-wide. It covered the highest mountains. The highest mountains in the area of Mesopotamia are ? So if the waters went above those mountains, it just stands to reason it could not be a localized flood.
A localized flood would make much more sense. A world wide flood has far to many problems with it. However I still maintain that it should not be read literally.
Jonathan ben Uzziel supposes that it was a precious luminous stone which Noah, by Divine command, brought from the river Pison.
(chuckle). That's almost as good as Adam being hermaphrodite!!
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So it might have been an opening 18 inches high that ran the length of the ship on top of the ship.
Yeah...'might have' but on the other hand, it might have been one tiny window like it says in the Bible.
It amazes me how much twisting and turning you guys have to do to make your story fit. Find something in your Bible that you like and it becomes 'the word of God'...unchangeable, irrefutable and infallible. Yet find something that you don't like and suddenly it a case of 'it means something other than what it says'. It's time for 'mistranslations', hermeneutics and secret codes that allow you to decide what it should say rather than what it does say. None of these things you found it necessary to employ when you were reading a bit that you liked!
You read that 'God loves us' and you don't change it. That is what the words say and you want us to accept it exactly as it is written but, when you see Jesus telling us to hate, it's suddenly a case of.... 'No, no, that's not what it means. You are not in possession of the secret codes that allow one to interpret scripture correctly'.You have to translate it from Greek into Hebrew and then back to into Aramaic and finally back into Greek before you can understand it....until what you present as 'truth' has no resemblance to what the words actually say!
You really like comparing apples with chainsaws don't you?
Continents moving at 40 km/hr does not prove every living thing would be killed. Please provide facts to back up your claim.
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Lets see over the past 10 years we had two minor hiccups of subduction leading to two tsunamis killing hundreds of thousands. What the YEC propose is exponentially (may have to look up the meaning of that word) greater and you expect folk to accept that such forces and cataclysmic events would not wipe out everything? By that I mean everything far outweighing your mythical flood to the extent the planet would be totally uninhabitable.
Which proves my point. The continent(s) subducted, the sea levels rose inundating the continents. If just two minor hiccups of subduction lead to killing hundreds of thousands as you said, then what I say stands. All life on earth was wiped out except for those in the ark.
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Continents moving away at such speeds would expose the seas to molten magma boiling off the oceans, earthquakes of magnitudes off the Richter scale.
Please provide proof, acual proof.
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Now go look at the oceanography where the seabeds show (thanks to ultrasound and satellite mapping) a gradual movement and NOT some massive scar.
It is gradual now.
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Let me introduce you to my other hometown Bulawayo and the Matopos (Matoba) hills. You see there we have balancing rocks. These are the results of millions if not billions of years of wind erosion. None of these would be where they currently are if there were a catastrophic deluge, tsunami, or earthquakes. (click link to see more pics)
If they have been that way for millions or billions of years then they survived the flood.
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The rocks are granite (I am sure you know this is a very hard rock) Do you know how granite is formed? Look it up. Our earth's crust is mostly granite.
How about these caves in the same area, paintings dated way before your alleged fludd including stone age artefacts.
Did the cave dwellers leave an actual date on their wall? Here's a hint, we have people living like neolithic people today on this planet. I'm sure if they were wiped out and your buddies went there on an archeological find they'd say: Wow! Look! evidence of people living here a million years ago! Right after the flood some of the groups of people from Noah's family who had families lived in caves, interbred and became what was known as Neanderthals. They either died out or were killed off by the more robust groups coming from Noah's family who did not interbreed.
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You see, I have lived in three countries and visited many others. You really need to come to Africa and SEE the evidence of an old earth.
I believe in an old earth. I also believe the flood was world-wide.
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These formations could not have reformed in 4500 years after a deluge or great earthquakes.
The bible says in Genesis 1:2 that the earth became chaos and vacant, to it proves the bible to be correct. Those formations survived the flood.
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How about this feature known as the Titanic Rock in Clarens where my mother grew up.
Survived the flood.
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Different rock, this is highly compressed sandstone (not granite) I have climbed this three times. Can you see the layers? This area of SA is rich in dino fossils and is part of the Maluti (a subset of the Drakensberg) mountains.
Survived the flood.
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You see, Southern Africa is not really prone to earthquakes and I only felt one tremor when I was about 10 and that was like a 2-3 on the Richter scale in Bulawayo and was anyway aftershock of an earthquake that happened somewhere far away (cannot remember the details)
NONE of these features simply happened in the last 6000 years.
FYI the Matopos and the rock above are all higher than 4000 feet above sea level.
We have some of the deepest gold mines in the world and have recovered by chance fossils kilometres below the surface.
But of course there is ample evidence in North America saying the same thing as here in Africa. You just need to educate yourself.
I think it is interesting that not once do any of the writers of the Old Testament or New Testament consider Noah or the flood to be a cute story not based on fact. I'll just quote the New Testament since it would be too many verses if the OT were quoted:
Mat_24:37 For even as the days of Noah, thus shall be the presence of the Son of Mankind."
Mat_24:38 For as they were in those days before the deluge, masticating and drinking and marrying and taking in marriage until the day on which Noah entered into the ark,
Luk_3:36 of Cainan, of Arphaxad, of Shem, of Noah, of Lamech,
Luk_17:26 And according as it occurred in the days of Noah, thus will it be in the days of the Son of Mankind also."
Luk_17:27 They ate, they drank, they married, they took out in marriage, until the day on which Noah entered into the ark, and the deluge came and destroys them all."
Heb_11:7 By faith Noah, being apprized concerning that which is not as yet being observed, being pious, constructs an ark for the salvation of his house, through which he condemns the world, and became an enjoyer of the allotment of the righteousness which accords with faith."
1Pe_3:20 He heralds to those once stubborn, when the patience of God awaited in the days of Noah while the ark was being constructed, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were brought safely through water,
2Pe_2:5 and spares not the ancient world, but guards Noah, an eighth, a herald of righteousness, bringing a deluge on the world of the irreverent;"
Here is an interesting article on the Grand Canyon proving a world-wide flood:
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