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So something on another thread got me thinking............
We know of the general lack of knowledge of bronze age society compared to now.
And Jesus was a product of this society......
So some would claim Jesus to be divine, or we are told, omnipotent, all knowing
SO let's look at a few obvious things Jesus got wrong.
1 Confusing demons with illness. It was a common belief in the bronze age era that diseases were caused by demons, OR in some cases, that certain diseases, such as seizures, "epileptic fits" were misconstrued as "demonic possession"
Looking at this in a modern context, whereby we know that there is no such thing, medically or otherwise, we have to ask why did Jesus not realize this? why could jesus not say to everyone "Oh there are no demons, but this is a disease that humans will discover a treatment for in the future...." I work in medicine. there is no such thing as "demon possession" . But ignorant bronze age teachers would not have understood what we know now. Question remains, why did Jesus not know better?
2 Not knowing the origins of leprosy. hansen's Disease gets a lot of attention in Bible myths, especially miracle myths, because not only was it not curable, but it was understood to be contagious. Why did jesus not impart knowledge to people regarding safe contact with those affected by Hansen's Disease? Did he not understand germs? Of course not. Because Jesus, like everyone else in the bronze age, had no knowledge of germs.
3 Jesus instructed slaves to obey their masters....Did Jesus lack the moral compass to understand how wrong and "evil" the institution of slavery is? Serisouly, anyone who condones slavery needs a psych referrel. Slavery is wrong, and to this end there is no exception. Slavery would not be tolerated by any enlightened culture and morally it would nto be tolerated by any enlightened person. So was jesus just not enlightened enough to understand or realize this?
4 Jesus mistook the character Abiathar with Ahemilech. One would think that if Jesus was all knowing ( and especially if Jesus was God, and God wrote all the scriptures,) then Maybe JEsus would have known the difference between the two ? Hmmmmm?
5 Mustard seed gaff, Jesus admonished people to have faith of a grain of mustard, the smallest of all seeds, except that the mustrad seed is NOT the smallest seed, but oh well, and it grows to a tree which can shelter birds, it grows at best into a small bush...Guess Jesus had no knowledge of Botany either.
THis is just the obvious 5 things, I think what this shows is that Jesus was a just a human ( aka some guy) and not all knowing , not perfect, and not omnipotent
By the way, accordingly Jesus claimed he would be back before the generation that knew him had passed away...well, that never happened (although it is doubtful if the person Jesus ever actually really truly said that)
Jesus was only a human, only a person and very few people who knew him thought of him as a "god"
That belief would not come into vogue until much later, and eventually take over the orthodoxy of the rleigion, eventually Jesus would become some sacrifice for sins of adam (which again, we know never happened) but anyway
SO the next time someone says "Well, Jesus was perfect," point these five things out to them, and add a few of your own. There is nothing wrong with encouraging reality.
I would agree with most of what you say, except for your comments on slavery. Jesus did not lack a moral compass - far from it! He was the hero of the downtrodden. He lacked a modern moral compass, to but it bluntly - and there's no crime in that. He was a man of his times, and it would be bad method to castigate someone (who we have just admitted is a mere human in the same post) for not living up to our modern ideals of political correctness. I have read many a "popular" book on history that spent far too much time criticizing ancient cultures for not emulating OUR culture.
Morality, besides that, is not a simple thing where one can say that is wrong and this is right. If one starts thinking in such ways, then one is admitting that there is some underlying or overarching system of good and evil that has been established by someone or something that all humans should strive for, and that strives a bit too close to religion for me.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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More to the point than the above objections (of which 4 could be answered by good apologists), Jesus said directly that he didn't know everything.
Quote:
Mark 13:28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it[d] is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father......
Excellent points, LKC! I wonder what answers the apologists will come up with. Some interesting quick side-and end-stepping to be sure. Obviously, Jesus was only a common minstrel gussied up by later authors to be The King of Kings, or son thereof. Nothing special.
I also made the point, and predictably got no answer, that he is officially and specifically long past overdue for that oft-promised second coming, which strongly indicates it is simply not going to happen. Ever.
Sorry to bring that to all of you who are apparently in such desperate need of the event.
HINT: Best you get on with your lifes as they are, and not in desperate, wishful hope of some great End Times Salvation coming soon to a Ship Dock near you....
Hey look, it's the god deniers having another conversation with each other. The old preaching to the choir rhetoric, if youll pardon the pun. . As usual, they pretend loads of believers are here but are just afraid to engage because of the god deniers) unassailable logic. Talk about wishful thinking. Very pathetic and sad.
I write this while watching opening Olympic ceremonies. The worst ever, IMO. Meanwhile, these self aggrandizing sad sacks spend their time posting incessantly on CD, fantasizing they themselves will bring about, or at least witness, "the end of religion". HahahahAha, lots of hard work ahead. Heads up, the al quid ah types don't care much for infidels... And theyll do worse than bombard you with unwanted pamphlets.
Ps charging westboro those nuts are approved and sanctioned by any Christians is just nonsense and means you are only here to verbally brawl. Might as well claim all doctors are quacks, etc. absurdity writ large.
And 100 years later in Roman society, Jesus was born. Further by 300BC everyone was up to speed. Using Iron and such. Sorry.
If you want to call the writers of the NT ignorant bronze age sheep hearders, at least get your facts straight.
Just sayin'.
Yeah, I'm sure the Romans were sharing their iron and bronze (mostly bronze) with the Zealots.
Yes, I agree, the NT writers were definitely Iron Age Greeks.
I'm pretty sure when people talk about the IBASH they are talking about the writers of the O.T.
So something on another thread got me thinking............
We know of the general lack of knowledge of bronze age society compared to now.
And Jesus was a product of this society......
SO the next time someone says "Well, Jesus was perfect," point these five things out to them, and add a few of your own. There is nothing wrong with encouraging reality.
Moderator cut: deleted
Reason me this: before Jesus, Alexandria had the greatest collection of knowledge on earth. Jews were right in there when it came to using the technology of the times. They built the great temple, and that took skills. Let's not forget that when the Egyptian, Roman and Byzantine empires fell, the DARK AGES began.
As far as I'm concerned, they knew a lot that we still haven't figured out. Greek fire, Sri Lanka steel (300bc), Damascus Steel...etc. Let's keep in mind that the seven wonders all predated Christ; pretty awesome for cave dwellers, dirt diggers and ignorant ancients. To think the Jews were somehow lesser beings shows your ignorance of history.
There are too many assumptions in the OPs reasoning to begin listing.
Sound like all here have not received Jesus Holy Spirit and do not Know the things of God , as I did not read anything that was true on this thread ........ In the Bible from 1 Corinthians 2 says ``Eyes have not seen, or ear heard , neither have entered in to the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him...For what man know the things of man, save the spirit of man searches all things the deep things of God ...... Now we have received not the spirit of this world , but the Spirit which is of God , that we might know the things of God , that are freely given to us of God...Which things also we speak are not in the words which man`s wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual ...... But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God , for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them because they spiritually discerned....... But he that is spiritual judge all things, yet he himself is judged of no man .... For who has known the mind of the Lord , that he may instruct Him?.....But we have the Mind of Christ..``......... See Christians see things through the Spirit , which is absent from this thread , and people with out Gods Spirit see thing from logical naturalism from face value...
Excellent points, LKC! I wonder what answers the apologists will come up with. Some interesting quick side-and end-stepping to be sure. Obviously, Jesus was only a common minstrel gussied up by later authors to be The King of Kings, or son thereof. Nothing special.
I also made the point, and predictably got no answer, that he is officially and specifically long past overdue for that oft-promised second coming, which strongly indicates it is simply not going to happen. Ever.
Sorry to bring that to all of you who are apparently in such desperate need of the event
HINT: Best you get on with your lifes as they are, and not in desperate, wishful hope of some great End Times Salvation coming soon to a Ship Dock near you....
I remember one answer a certain poster gave to the "mustard seed" question (Eusebius) in another thread:
"Are you calling Jesus a liar?!"
In answer to that funny reply I would state that Jesus was only a liar IF he was aware of the existence of an even smaller seed, and yet chose to say what he did anyways. In all actuality, this was probably just the smallest seed that Jesus (living in the area that he did) was aware of - and one that his listeners would have known of, being mostly rural peasants. This isn't an apology for the claim that Jesus was perfect, for I'm pretty sure that when they wrote about his "perfection" that they were insinuating that his perfection was a ritual or spiritual perfection.
Perhaps too many take that to mean he was a perfect person in everything - even the arts and sciences. Well, for those people who do hold that idea - they definitely open themselves up to some questions that are not easily explained away.
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Watch the desperation!
The old preaching to the choir rhetoric, if youll pardon the pun. 
