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I can only think of a few religions that work like that: Zoroastrianism, Christianity, and Islam.
In Judaism, we recognize God as the source of everything, either by direct action or by effect and circumstance. As it's written in Isaiah: Who forms light and creates darkness, Who makes peace and creates evil; I am the Lord, Who makes all these. The angel who fills the post of ha-satan (the accuser) is an agent of God; he has no free will of his own and obeys God's will.
And nature doesn't show us duality. If anything, it shows us that all creatures are capable of good and bad, and that different situations can bring about different reactions. While some things go to the extremes at both ends, most of us are generally somewhere in the middle.
As for satan, it's only found as a character in the book of Job, and the title is used for men as well in other areas. It's often seen as a representation of the yetzer hara; the evil inclination found within all mankind.
I would say that all of nature, all of existence, exists within the framework of dualities. From the smallest particles in nature where we can see their behavior being both wave-like and particle-like, all the way to mankind where his mind can be split and be subjective one minute and rational and logical the next. And then there are so many examples like extremes in temperatures, day and night..... the examples go on and on.
Behavior also exists in opposite extremes, and most of us generally exist somewhere in the middle as you stated. Even our physiological condition depends on a balance between extremes called homeostasis. If there were no opposites there would be no need for this thread. And when we talk about something like God who symbolizes goodness, there is immediately the need for a protagonist to represent the opposing viewpoint. Otherwise, we don't have a story.
I would say that all of nature, all of existence, exists within the framework of dualities. From the smallest particles in nature where we can see their behavior being both wave-like and particle-like, all the way to mankind where his mind can be split and be subjective one minute and rational and logical the next. And then there are so many examples like extremes in temperatures, day and night..... the examples go on and on.
Behavior also exists in opposite extremes, and most of us generally exist somewhere in the middle as you stated. Even our physiological condition depends on a balance between extremes called homeostasis. If there were no opposites there would be no need for this thread. And when we talk about something like God who symbolizes goodness, there is immediately the need for a protagonist to represent the opposing viewpoint. Otherwise, we don't have a story.
None of those are representative of dualism, particularly in the religious/philosophical sense presented in your OP. Dualism describes the opposition and conflict between two poles (good and evil). It has nothing to do with balance between cellular functions, the nature of particles, or the cyclic revolution of the planet.
Doesn't seem the same to me. I'm no scientist, and I do know that they have opposite charges. But are they actually opposing each other?
In the OP, nezlie posits that everything has an opposing force, something that acts in an antagonistic (to use his word) role to it. I'm just not seeing it. Most things in nature are neutral; while they might react harshly with other things (matter and anti-matter react and produce energy, if my memory serves correctly), but that doesn't mean that they are in conflict with one another. Matter isn't on a crusade to rid the world of anti-matter any more that day is locked in an eternal struggle with the night.
Doesn't seem the same to me. I'm no scientist, and I do know that they have opposite charges. But are they actually opposing each other?
Yes . . . when they meet they annihilate each other (as we see it from our perspective). Einstein had a different view. In discussing annihilation (dematerialization) . . . Einstein described how such an effect could be achieved without there being any real "emptiness,"
. . . a superposition of two oppositely oriented local curvatures of the non-Euclidean time-space which would cancel each other like two waves of equal amplitude meeting at opposite phases and the result would be a local disappearance of the non-Euclidean curvature. That particular region of time-space would acquire the homogeneous and undifferentiated character which characterizes what we call 'void' or 'absence of matter.'
Since over 95+% our our reality is what we would consider "void" or "absence of matter" and less than 5% is what we consider "matter" . . . the importance and implications of such opposing forces would seem to be evident.
It does address who or what God cast down into death...was Humans...Man and Woman...and the thing said to be the cause or instigator?...and supposed speaking snake...called Satan...is In part a spirit of defiance of God...
So yes I believe I have addressed the root post....WE ARE SATAN....if we do not follow instruction, uphold commandments , precepts ( known truths and or methods ) Laws of the Land...and the Idea of being Like God....so we Give everything....and all is given...all is shared....all makes more...and more is made like the one...EDEN God did Make.....we should follow that line....as his children.....But some do not...most are being mislead....and the earth suffers the World...and many other living things have say....for all are of God.....as it says.
So when we threaten them....God threatens US.....point is Any organisum that kills all life without reason and wants to turn the planet into a Garbage dump...and soon to be irradiated and chemically induced to vomit up all kinds of detramentals so more suffer and die needlessly....That is what I call EVIL....and they got you paying for it to be so...and so Partners yes?....So when I say WE ARE SATAN or as I like to put it...$atans helpers...destroying the planet...for $$$......You know exactly where That is coming from....THE TRUTH.....and I stand by that and point....Now why are some plant growers really hated by the world?.....they hate God....and so if God made all plants....as it says, and some of them are important for the matrix to work....and he tells US HELPERS...DO not touch this.....but leave it be.....then it has to exists....on either side of all equations until we find reason for it being what God labeled it...GOOD...then it has to have attributes that are GOOD for God to say so.
Prohibition puts God into prison!
Puts children into prison......
While I can tune into 100 different kinds of sin in any city I go to, or even on the web, or broadcast in airwaves of digital and radio Frequencies......and it is legal...in that system of IDOLS....wonder why?
Yah...I know why....We are SATANs...devils...demons...ANTI EDEN...ANTI GOD...ANTI CHRISTS>>>MAKES ANTI LIFE<<>>....and that is where God is born.?? Dark matter?...To right the wrongs we do that creates him to see the EVILS AND SINS BEING DONE...so that we need to be saved from ourselves...doing what should not be done...BUT IS.....surely it cannot Go on much longer....eh?
Well more war just came on the news...more death making on the agenda..cause they cannot Give them true Freedom to live for Free from sin and evil!...and no one listening to God's word..anymore correctly?...commandments or covenants....or laws of the lands.done to any merit//..or anything instructed or made of correction for our past tresspasses....To gain the favor of God and all living things....No No... there is no God they say now....and no Satan either...only money and taxes and a higher price to live in said system!!...surely with what I have seen in my life...trying out certain biblical practices to see if they are of any merit...the one plant I have grown...that is illegal to grow or sell...surely can get me alot of what I need...without money even being used...Thus No crime is commited...of said system.
So No IDOL means NO IDOLS...
Infact the complete opposite is in play in the world right now..(WTC is the monument of evil and sin they keep on building, but God keep knocking down...yes it is writen Just gotta dig for it)......in front of our faces...and we do not see that sysmbolic truth!..cause the lies blind us with bling bling and flashing pulsing lights to buy buy buy and sale sale sale...But it is never free! , and leads us to ruin, through that broken commandment.....continually/ constant....and no one can spot this as being out of order?.(Mathew points out... to be one or the other but not both)..Again God said something about that IDOL...long time ago...Jesus was killed because he threatened that estate with the idea of living for free..sharing in life..being in a unit of do gooders...and if all do GOOD....it becomes easier to help..and God lends a hand.........for free....now that system of "not free" is upon you..(it all has been stolen from US By the System which is opposing God)..too busy to stop doing what you are made to do for that $$$...to do a simple act of good faith in returning something to the God...and to the earth in the right light or spirit of Giving and sharing..(which stops making sinners and evildoers that do those things because they are asked to break a commandment of GOD continually by the system so they can have some of it ...but never obtaining what they need...)..for the greator Good of all living things, God gave everything to us to put right or in order.......and so empathy is laking the Human condition in some regards onto them other living things if we pollute the air, waters and soils, without mindfulness or care...... We Are demons....or Satans helpers...we become selfish....onto ourselves...thinking we are greator than God.....and that is just wrong...as nothing is greator than the truth..You can only know the truth...there is nothing above that.....and God is the truth...Eden was His will...is his will...and will always be his will to make....We were made to tend and keep it, in a sinless state....Not under control of that IDOL and the continued bent law which puts people into prison for growing a Plant or any plant...to poison them because we do not like them...because they are Free food for some...They do not like......while slaughtering children and men and women, and or oppressing them into destitution.....Are you doing that in some indirect way?....hmmm...???..does your taxed hand support this bent law which harms so many people for no good reason?....
Then you now know why Terrorist exist..( God appoints terror onto sin and evil)..They do not believe in a system, that takes away a given By God...so so many detramantals can occur...sickness , suffering , and their oppression on certain trade...that causes destitution.....that system which oppresses falsely others... is now making with Your help in taxation......and so even though you think you are not a demon or a SATANIC Being...You do help them when You pick up their charms...with,, that IDOL told not to make, or have before God for life....We become a sinner in placing this money as important.....Just by using it.
And they subject all things to it falsely......detramentals are profitable...if we never address the root cause and change that which make them be. We will always have them upon us.....to correct that error someone has to address God...then more detramentals will occur if when God comes he finds Evil and Sins of all kinds dancing in glee and jubilee.....it is just a matter of time before shoo fly shoo fly..poo poo....hits the fan...
and they sacrifice onto it..."Thank You for your sacrifices".. the presedent Bush g said on my tv..
So...to your OP....We are Satan...if we unite to kill anyone!!...disobediant...and caught in a trap of a mountain of sins and evils...how one gets out of it...is usually how one got in to it to begin with.....I say.
And so I point at Genesis...to Find a clue!= a Plant green put back...Sinlessly!...and with understanding of its attributes of Good...makes God very Happy....repentance and change occurs in the Body...Mind and Spirit...and God takes that one out of death...and puts him or her or the other back into Life...where they can live for free!....cause it ain't happening here!....SO it must be somewhere else, as a state of opposites...it has to exist....that is the law of opposites....we are not God if we do the opposite of God....destroy all life, by not being prudent on the pollution we make....We eventually distroy the self/Humanity....and $atan cannot do this to himself or her self....So they awaken and learn either way...God gets his EDEN...cuase he plays on two sides of the UNIVERSE...positive and negitive..there are other places where he has done wonders....and we are still fighting over Who is right or wrong...while the Earth goes to shoo fly shoo..who did the Poo Poo...?...God is pointing at us...with very Good evidence!
Sin does not go...Evil does not Go....only Good go...cause God took the Good...and left the bad ones to burn in the fire they are now getting ready to unleash.
Yes and the fruits of atheists are often anger, intolerance, profanity, arrogance, and mockery. That's rotten fruit if you ask me.
I am a founding member of Atheist Ireland and I work a lot with the umbrella organisation Atheist International. As such I come across a huge number of atheists personally, at events, online, by email and written post and much more. Many of them actively activist in many social issues.
And I see nothing to support the notion that they are "often" angry, intolerant, profane or arrogant. Not at all. But do not let this get in the way of you stuffing straw into your straw man.
I did leave mockery out of that list though because many atheists I meet do realise both the value and utility of humor and directing mockery at patently absurd ideas is a genuinely useful thing to do. I do it myself but always with the caveat that we should "Respect people... not ideas". It is possible to mock ideas without mocking the people who hold them and that is an ideal worth aspiring to.
We are human and HUMANS can often be arrogant, profane and intolerant. So of course we will find atheists who are these things. I see no reasons, much less from you or this thread, to think atheists rank any higher than the societal average in this regard however. In fact it would seem to me that SOME religions with their concept of splitting the world into people "saved" and "needing saving" are prone to starting from a point where the theists espousing them starts out arrogantly viewing themselves as being above others.
I am a founding member of Atheist Ireland and I work a lot with the umbrella organisation Atheist International. As such I come across a huge number of atheists personally, at events, online, by email and written post and much more. Many of them actively activist in many social issues.
And I see nothing to support the notion that they are "often" angry, intolerant, profane or arrogant. Not at all. But do not let this get in the way of you stuffing straw into your straw man.
I did leave mockery out of that list though because many atheists I meet do realise both the value and utility of humor and directing mockery at patently absurd ideas is a genuinely useful thing to do. I do it myself but always with the caveat that we should "Respect people... not ideas". It is possible to mock ideas without mocking the people who hold them and that is an ideal worth aspiring to.
We are human and HUMANS can often be arrogant, profane and intolerant. So of course we will find atheists who are these things. I see no reasons, much less from you or this thread, to think atheists rank any higher than the societal average in this regard however. In fact it would seem to me that SOME religions with their concept of splitting the world into people "saved" and "needing saving" are prone to starting from a point where the theists espousing them starts out arrogantly viewing themselves as being above others.
So why don't I see atheists spending their time helping the community instead of tearing it down? For example, it's plainly disrespectful and even mean to campaign to have a cross memorial for grieving survivors be taken off public property. Yet that's the fruits of atheists labor.
Mockery has no benefit in a moral society. It is a mechanism to incite negative emotions, but a source of enjoyment for atheists who want to antagonize Christians.
Perhaps the most telling evidence is that I have never once seen an atheist disagree with another atheist when it comes to attacking Christians. That's being intellectually dishonest. Hey as long as your brethen is fighting Christianity, it doesn't matter what they say, right?
So why don't I see atheists spending their time helping the community instead of tearing it down?
It could only be for want of looking. There are many. There are numerous secular AND specifically atheist charities and organisations. And individuals.
Even in my own tiny corner Atheist Ireland for example spent much of 2012 starting a now ongoing and quite successful Community Outreach campaign and many of our members are out in the community helping the poor, needy, sick and elderly.
We are also aligned with Kiva the lending organisation where you lend your own money at zero profit to yourself and risk of not being paid back, to groups and individuals who are trying hard to get a start in life and get on their feet. Why only last week my most recent loan to a Nigerian woman who set up her own business buying, repairing and reselling second hand shoes received it's final repayment.
So any notion that Atheists are not out in the community engaged in good works at all levels is nothing but a fantasy. A fantasy we can file with the rest you appear keen to espouse about these fora.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD39
Mockery has no benefit in a moral society.
Your opinion and you are welcome to it. I disagree. We as a species have the faculty of humour and it can be a powerful tool in highlighting the issues with certain things where other methods fail. I repeat however that the mockery of ideas and the mockery of people are different things by far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWD39
Perhaps the most telling evidence is that I have never once seen an atheist disagree with another atheist when it comes to attacking Christians.
Again this has to be for want of looking. Forums such as this have many people discussing how we as atheists should go about out agendas against religion.
I myself have tried to reign in some obnoxious atheists too when they "let the side down". Over in atheist Ireland we have a user called eccles who invaded a catholic forum and started calling them all kinds of things like "Raving Cath-licks" and much worse things the moderators of this forum would not allow me to repeat. We staged an intervention, explained to him how he was not just an embarrassment to himself but to the rest of us as a movement too, and over time we helped him clean up his act.
Some popular names and bloggers in the movement from Richard Dawkins to PZ Myers and more have often stood up in response to some words or actions by atheists and derided them and said "Dont do that" and explained why.
Daniel Dennett also wrote a whole book on the subject of religion and how we should not just study it but address it and live with it and deal with it. He called very strongly throughout the entire book for patience, human solidarity, decorum and much more. It is called "Breaking the spell" and I invite you to read it.
So once again your lack of seeing these things in society is seemingly only explainable by your lack of trying. Or perhaps a blinkered need stemming from your own biases to not register them when you do see them. What it certainly is not however is a pedestal from which you can presume to decry others as "Intellectually dishonest". It seems you need to clean your own house up there before commenting on that of others.
Your opinion and you are welcome to it. I disagree. We as a species have the faculty of humour and it can be a powerful tool in highlighting the issues with certain things where other methods fail. I repeat however that the mockery of ideas and the mockery of people are different things by far.
And when the mockery of ideas is that Christianity is a book of fables and Christians worship a blood thirsty "sky fairy" out of ignorance then yes, you are essentially mocking Christians.
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>>....and that is where God is born.?? Dark matter?...To right the wrongs we do that creates him to see the EVILS AND SINS BEING DONE...so that we need to be saved from ourselves...doing what should not be done...BUT IS.....surely it cannot Go on much longer....eh?
