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No...I choose heterosexual sexual acts. But again...I'm a man. Created for a woman.
(Is this where I chime in with 'strong enough for a man. but made for a woman' jokes? )
Seriously, though, if you were 'created for a woman', then it's not a choice. It's the nature of your 'design'. You are not attracted to men, and you can't change that.
Which means that you acknowledge that homosexuality is not a 'choice', either, else we're looking at two different 'creations'.
(Is this where I chime in with 'strong enough for a man. but made for a woman' jokes? )
Seriously, though, if you were 'created for a woman', then it's not a choice. It's the nature of your 'design'. You are not attracted to men, and you can't change that.
Which means that you acknowledge that homosexuality is not a 'choice', either, else we're looking at two different 'creations'.
Logic is fun, folks.
You're making assumptions based on no facts that homosexuality is an "orientation".
All men were created to be with women. That's how God did it. Do some go against that? Yup.
You're making assumptions based on no facts that homosexuality is an "orientation".
All men were created to be with women. That's how God did it. Do some go against that? Yup.
But it appears that there are a raft of biological differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals. There appears to be some men who are "created to be with" other men, as their brains respond like that of a heterosexual female, they respond to pheromones and scent cues like a heterosexual female, and there are structural differences not only in the brain but throughout the body. If a woman is "designed" for a man, how can a man who is "wired" like a woman not also be "meant" for a man?
Edit: Meant to add a link here. Here a good overview of the current state of research into this. I ran across a lot of this in a book, "A billion wicked thoughts" which looked at human sexuality by using statistical data from the internet, and tied it back into current research. A very interesting read...
I understand you point about genetics. I don't think genetic alone can account for the entire spectrum of human sexual behavior. There are several proposed biological mechanisms, and well as genetics. This can also be combined with sociological influences and personal experiences. I don't think we have the ability at this point, and maybe never will, to point to a single factor and say, "This determines human sexuality", but we can clearly see that it isn't simply a choice unless you chose your genetics, uterine and pre-natal hormonal environments, and early childhood cognitive development. I don't remember making those choices. Do you?
I understand your position, but I think you would be in a more defensible position to say that orientation is biological reality. You can still say that it is wrong, and that your god requires his followers to not act on these innate desires. In that sense it is no different that requiring heterosexual priests to be celibate.
One of my major issues is this idea that even the desire is evil. It leads to people living a life where they have to hide who they are, even from themselves. Even if your god exists, I don't think he would intend a lifetime of guilt, shame, fear, mental (or physical) self flagellation, and self -loathing for his children. What you are preaching isn't good news, its horrific. If the church would acknowledge homosexuality as a fact of life, and choose to address the behavior, not demonize the desire, I think you would find more homosexuals who could make the choice to live a celibate, "godly" life, knowing that who they are is not something to be ashamed of, even if God does require them to not act on those desires.
-NoCapo
Last edited by NoCapo; 03-10-2013 at 09:31 AM..
Reason: added link
...snip...
One of my major issues is this idea that even the desire is evil. It leads to people living a life where they have to hide who they are, even from themselves. Even if your god exists, I don't think he would intend a lifetime of guilt, shame, fear, mental (or physical) self flagellation, and self -loathing for his children. What you are preaching isn't good news, its horrific. If the church would acknowledge homosexuality as a fact of life, and choose to address the behavior, not demonize the desire, I think you would find more homosexuals who could make the choice to live a celibate, "godly" life, knowing that who they are is not something to be ashamed of, even if God does require them to not act on those desires.
But it appears that there are a raft of biological differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals. There appears to be some men who are "created to be with" other men, as their brains respond like that of a heterosexual female, they respond to pheromones and scent cues like a heterosexual female, and there are structural differences not only in the brain but throughout the body. If a woman is "designed" for a man, how can a man who is "wired" like a woman not also be "meant" for a man?
Edit: Meant to add a link here. Here a good overview of the current state of research into this. I ran across a lot of this in a book, "A billion wicked thoughts" which looked at human sexuality by using statistical data from the internet, and tied it back into current research. A very interesting read...
There are all sorts of people "created with" a desire for bad things...like alcoholic tendencies. Or pedophiles that crave sex with children. Is that ok, too?
Quote:
I understand you point about genetics. I don't think genetic alone can account for the entire spectrum of human sexual behavior. There are several proposed biological mechanisms, and well as genetics. This can also be combined with sociological influences and personal experiences. I don't think we have the ability at this point, and maybe never will, to point to a single factor and say, "This determines human sexuality", but we can clearly see that it isn't simply a choice unless you chose your genetics, uterine and pre-natal hormonal environments, and early childhood cognitive development. I don't remember making those choices. Do you?
I like women a lot. Am I excused from the bounds of monogamy because of that? Or am I to hold to my marital vows? Suppose a pedophile likes children....is he/she excused from the behavior simply because they think they were born that way? Or do we expect people to control their urges?
Quote:
I understand your position, but I think you would be in a more defensible position to say that orientation is biological reality. You can still say that it is wrong, and that your god requires his followers to not act on these innate desires. In that sense it is no different that requiring heterosexual priests to be celibate.
I'm sorry. God made people male and female. He has stated that burning with a desire for someone of the same gender is wrong. God did not make an "orientation" that differs from gender any more than he created a pedophile.
Quote:
One of my major issues is this idea that even the desire is evil. It leads to people living a life where they have to hide who they are, even from themselves. Even if your god exists, I don't think he would intend a lifetime of guilt, shame, fear, mental (or physical) self flagellation, and self -loathing for his children. What you are preaching isn't good news, its horrific. If the church would acknowledge homosexuality as a fact of life, and choose to address the behavior, not demonize the desire, I think you would find more homosexuals who could make the choice to live a celibate, "godly" life, knowing that who they are is not something to be ashamed of, even if God does require them to not act on those desires.
-NoCapo
Why not? Shame is a gift from God. It keeps us from doing things that we know are wrong.
There are all sorts of people "created with" a desire for bad things...like alcoholic tendencies. Or pedophiles that crave sex with children. Is that ok, too?
I like women a lot. Am I excused from the bounds of monogamy because of that? Or am I to hold to my marital vows? Suppose a pedophile likes children....is he/she excused from the behavior simply because they think they were born that way? Or do we expect people to control their urges?
I'm sorry. God made people male and female. He has stated that burning with a desire for someone of the same gender is wrong. God did not make an "orientation" that differs from gender any more than he created a pedophile.
Why not? Shame is a gift from God. It keeps us from doing things that we know are wrong.
Why is sex bad?
Of course pedophilia is wrong, children cannot consent.
Talk to your partner about monogamy. If you promise them to be monogamous, then do it.
It's not. It's great. God gave it to us as a gift to be enjoyed between married couples.
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Of course pedophilia is wrong, children cannot consent.
But what if they really really feel they're born that way?
Quote:
Talk to your partner about monogamy. If you promise them to be monogamous, then do it.
Your god also said eating lobster is wrong.
He never said Christians couldn't eat lobster. You really need to understand context.
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Are you not a creationist any more?
Of course I am. But God doesn't create a serial rapist to be a serial rapist. Nor a pedophile to be a pedophile, or a homosexual offender to commit homosexual acts. Or adulterers to commit adultery. We sin against God because we are sinners.
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