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Kind of a quick out of context claim to serve your purpose isn't it? Lets be honest. First, man has free will. Man does sin, does that invalidate the teachings or the goals of those who accept to achieve that path?
It doesn't invalidate those teachings or goals of the religion, no.
Murdering someone, and then claiming that 'God told me to do it', is contradictory and hypocritical:
'God told me to kill someone, even though the Ten Commandments say in Big Bold Letters 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL'.'
At work, my supervisor gave me a list of things that I was specifically *not* to do -- if he then goes and does every one of those things himself, what does that say about his character?
Moreover, can we trust that he truly *accepts* the rules that he's given?
The Bible says 'Thou shalt not kill'. Not 'Thou shalt kill, if thou thence proclaim that I sayeth so', not 'I revoke the Commandments, so thou mayest kill this once'.
Thou. Shalt. Not. Kill.
Even for a backwoods pagan like me, that seems pretty clear.
Are you actually saying Christians and/or Christianity have/has no morals?
Not at all, I am saying that people who are not christian also have morals but there are some christians who scream the loudest about their so called christianity that have no morals at all. Just like those Republicans who join the fight against homosexuality while at the same time endulging in homosexual relationships in the closet.
I think it is safe to say for our discussion that this is a point of contention. For each piece of evidence you provide, I can also provide counter to those claims and reasoning to back them. Lets just let this go as you think this way, and some think the other.
I'd be interested in seeing those claims as most of the 10 commandments would violate our Constitution.
Back to the OT..
Huckabee isn't the only choice for TRUE Christians..
It doesn't invalidate those teachings or goals of the religion, no.
Murdering someone, and then claiming that 'God told me to do it', is contradictory and hypocritical:
'God told me to kill someone, even though the Ten Commandments say in Big Bold Letters 'THOU SHALT NOT KILL'.'
At work, my supervisor gave me a list of things that I was specifically *not* to do -- if he then goes and does every one of those things himself, what does that say about his character?
Moreover, can we trust that he truly *accepts* the rules that he's given?
The Bible says 'Thou shalt not kill'. Not 'Thou shalt kill, if thou thence proclaim that I sayeth so', not 'I revoke the Commandments, so thou mayest kill this once'.
Thou. Shalt. Not. Kill.
Even for a backwoods pagan like me, that seems pretty clear.
What is your point? That man can twist the words of God to meet his own desires? It has been happening from day one. Also, if you do a little reading in the Bible you will notice that Satan was the master of this. He attempted to tempt Christ into sin by twisting scripture.
My point was that a Christian sinning is not proof of the failure of Christianity. In fact, it is just the opposite. It is proof that man is a sinner and requires help from God to avoid it.
If you are looking for me to support wackos who use God's word to their own ends, you won't find it. Sorry to disappoint.
I've spent some more time reading on Mike Huckabee's official web site. Although I like some of his statements on the issues, overall I think he is not the candidate who best promotes my Christian values.
When I read the NT, I am struck by Jesus' concern for the poor and marginalized. To me, that is the main thrust of his message. I think other candidates have better, more developed plans for helping the poor and marginalized.
I'd be interested in seeing those claims as most of the 10 commandments would violate our Constitution.
Back to the OT..
Huckabee isn't the only choice for TRUE Christians..
Ive been in those discussions many times. I think I even discussed at fair length in one not long ago concerning Separation of Church and State. They always end badly though so I left with what I said and moved on.
Simple fact with this issue is that "belief" is what drives peoples position on the issue. Ive seen professors of history and theologians act as if a text or scripture didn't exist to hold on to their position. If a person who is as "well studied" in the history and texts as them will ignore or deny a fact without a rebuttal of any substance, how much less do you think you will find on a public forum where 98% of the people posting have only a fraction of the information read and most of it derived from 3rd party sources who are educating on a position, not on the history?
People will believe what they want and see the truth they are willing to accept. In short, no offense, but I really don't have the strength to go into another one of those discussions. To support my position and avoid flippant brush offs that simply discredit a source, I must provide all of my evidence directly from the original texts from congress and trust me, that is a heck of a lot of reading for some people who will just ignore it after you have presented it.
You were making a value judgment of morality of another and one I might add that was falsely developed.
My point of those questions was merely to point out that if we are going to point fingers as people being immoral, then we must reflect that in truth we all are.
So tell me if I'm reading you correctly...
Basically, you're saying "So what if there are Christians out there that aren't moral...you're not a can of sweet peas yourself either"? How does that refute my point that not all under the title of Christian are moral again?
I've spent some more time reading on Mike Huckabee's official web site. Although I like some of his statements on the issues, overall I think he is not the candidate who best promotes my Christian values.
When I read the NT, I am struck by Jesus' concern for the poor and marginalized. To me, that is the main thrust of his message. I think other candidates have better, more developed plans for helping the poor and marginalized.
See, I kind of disagree. Helping the poor and marginalized is one of the teachings of Christ, but it isn't his entire principal of all his teachings. As Christians, we all too often focus to hard on the few teachings we think are important and ignore the principals to which they all represent.
There is much much more to what he taught and it as a whole is a model for behavior. There is a much bigger picture out there.
My point was that a Christian sinning is not proof of the failure of Christianity.
I don't think anyone said Christianity failed. Only the Christian who committed immoral sins did. And thus, not all Christians are moral. It's really pretty simple and I fail to see why you keep trying to alter the point.
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