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I am putting the blame on hate, greed, arrogance and superiority. Those are attitudes that not only incite people to violence, but cause them to justify, rationalize, and defend atrocities. People blame something out there instead of looking within to root out within their own heart their own hate, greed, arrogance, and superiority.
Then and now.
People who hate religion, hate God, say get rid of religion. Like on this thread. Same mindset. Hate something, blame it for your problems, and seek to annihilate it. Whether it's seeking to eliminate the Jews and gypsies in Nazi Germany. Or seeking to eliminate religion by people right here on CD. Smart people. Who consider themselves superior. And who are unwilling to even admit that such arrogance and superiority is a problem much less do anything about it.
So we should simply ignore those who studied the causes of the rise of Hitler because you claim it must be arrogance, funnier claiming that you know more about his rise than those who studied and documented it. Almost 100 % of Germans in that time identified themselves as Christians, they did not get rid of religion. Two thousand years of Christians blaming the Jews for their problems and you put the blame on getting rid of religion.
If you want to read arrogance, read the postings from some of the religious folks here who tell me that I cannot love or be nice due to not believing in a god or that it would not even bother me if someone came in and raped and murdered by wife and daughter because I accept evolution. Those are your arrogant people on CD. Those who wish to eliminate religion altogether are a small minority here and ones who I do not agree with.
What an ugly twisted blackness there is in the heart that holds hate such as this. This is an example of the hate and arrogance and superiority that allowed the Holocaust to happen.
And THIS is an example of projection as well as the typical theist agenda of promulgating specious ad hominem attacks when you are unable to respond to or provide counterfacts to the points actually raised.
Because by now certain part of human kind matured and knows better than to commit genocides.
I don't think so. Genocide is as alive, well, and as politically expedient as it always was. If "a certain part of human kind matured and knows better" then the people coming directly from the holocaust would not have committed the Nakba and would still not, to this day, keep four million Palestinians in an open air detention camp going on seventy years. There have no political lessons learned nor is there a universal morality practiced. There would not be group punishment in that region. There is only conflict and self-interested political expediency practiced on the world stage. Sure, you are taught that your "part of humanity" is "mature and knows better". However, this serves only to force you to accept an obvious double morality standard and to prevent you from traversing it.
Also, remember, that we are answering the question "why does god allow". We aren't speaking of human morality. We are speaking of metaphysical "allowance" and possibly intervention. My point was that the biblical god that the OP is speaking of not only allowed but encouraged the genocide of the Canaanites. He isn't the god that you have been taught to know, and he certainly is not averse to genocide. Perhaps the question should be changed to "why did the Jewish god allow the genocide of Jewish people". That would make for a deeper and more interesting discussion.
People who hate religion, hate God, say get rid of religion.
Pray, who here hates religion or god or suggests we should get rid of religion?
I disagree with religion, and disbelieve in god. That is not the same as hating either. Indeed, disbelieving in god inherently prevents me from hating god.
As for getting rid of religion, that will have to happen organically, and eventually it will. But I do not advocate attempting to forcefully eradicate it, nor do I think humanity in general is ready for that step at this time, such that even if I had the ability to instantly and painlessly remove religion, it would just reconstitute itself in short order, possibly in even worse forms. But argue against it, discuss the lack of substantiation for it, and the like? Of course.
If in fact religion is a good thing and is substantiated, present your counterfacts and maybe you will persuade me otherwise. But do not engage in low behavior such as character assassination or inserting words in people's mouths.
For the record I do not blame religion for my problems either. I have some basis to assign some blame to it, but not much. I am human enough on my own, and therefore, imperfect enough on my own, to recognize that if I had not had the excuse of religion to think and do ill advised things it probably would have been something else. But that does not absolve religion of responsibility either. As Jesus himself said, "there must of necessity by evil in the world, but woe to them by whom it comes."
Nor do I consider myself superior to anyone here, including you. And if this is not an ego contest to you, perhaps you can quit implying you're better than those who disagree with you by arguing that those who disagree with you are not in any way superior to you.
You remind me sometimes of Trump's thin-skinned tweeting of his objections to SNL depicting his think-skinned tweets. Get over yourself, remove the log from your own eye, and then presume to remove the speck from mine.
Nature abhors a vacuum. You are certain that eventually it will go away, so I ask you, what will replace it?
People like to gather together at least once a week. Atheist doesnt really offer that. Instead ppl atre suck in to their smartphones and increasingly lonely. If you can provide a substitute even if its meditation or something, sure.
But as things stand, I'd say this is a wishful thinking "this should happen therefore it will happen" statement.
Nature abhors a vacuum. You are certain that eventually it will go away, so I ask you, what will replace it?
People like to gather together at least once a week. Atheist doesnt really offer that. Instead ppl atre suck in to their smartphones and increasingly lonely. If you can provide a substitute even if its meditation or something, sure.
But as things stand, I'd say this is a wishful thinking "this should happen therefore it will happen" statement.
I am taking a very long view, on the order of many generations and probably, as I've generally said, a thousand or so years hence before religion is decisively and permanently relegated to the fringes most everywhere. Even then I don't expect it to entirely disappear. Most concepts of "spiritual development" see religious ideation as a phase that everyone passes through at least informally and there will always be those who will "get stuck" so to speak, and perhaps drawn to isolationist cult situations and the like.
There are atheists who think that we would do well now to turn from the uninteresting question of the existence and attributes of god, which we've already dispensed with whether theists want to admit it or not, and understand what itches religion actually does scratch, such as the need for community, and understand how to better meet those needs without the religious trappings.
Personally I have no problem meeting my modest social needs without the assistance of religion however. I meet with a group of other men weekly, my wife goes to a book club and is an officer in our HOA, and together we have participated in political campaigns and volunteered for hospice, attended concerts and so forth. For the youngsters in our area there is an atheist meetup with regular events for like minded people. My stepson is a Francophile and we attended a couple of dinners put on by a local French language club. So in point of fact there is already more available than the church alone offers.
Even the work world is evolving to meet social needs. There are several coworking spaces in our city for example where one engages in a style of work that provides opportunity for ad hoc discussion and cooperation and exchange of ideas both within organizations and between organizations, which generally leads to more social cohesion outside of work.
Pray, who here hates religion...
...or suggests we should get rid of religion?
Well...me actually old thing! I don't have a single nice thing to say about religion. It's divisive, primitive, dangerous, it takes advantage of the weak and then has the cheek to expect immunity from criticism for no other reason than it's someone’s "belief". If there was any other 'belief' that caused as much trouble and hatred in our society, it would be banned without question.
The sooner it goes the better as far as I'm concerned.
So we should simply ignore those who studied the causes of the rise of Hitler because you claim it must be arrogance, funnier claiming that you know more about his rise than those who studied and documented it. Almost 100 % of Germans in that time identified themselves as Christians, they did not get rid of religion. Two thousand years of Christians blaming the Jews for their problems and you put the blame on getting rid of religion.
If you want to read arrogance, read the postings from some of the religious folks here who tell me that I cannot love or be nice due to not believing in a god or that it would not even bother me if someone came in and raped and murdered by wife and daughter because I accept evolution. Those are your arrogant people on CD. Those who wish to eliminate religion altogether are a small minority here and ones who I do not agree with.
No, I am not saying we ignore the causes. I'm saying we pin the blame on actual causes and dont try to use arbitrary statistics to support a claim that isnt there.
Yes, most Germans were at the time Christians. But Nazi ideology is not in any way, shape, or form Christian.
Naziism is based on seversal distinct principles merged into a unified whole:
1. Nationalism and a nationwide debt
2. Fear and a need for someone to blamre
3. Cultural hatred of Jews (contrary to pop belief, this is not "the Jews killed Jesus" this is a simple "they tuk err jerbs" mentality, as I assume youve seen South Park and get the reference)
4. Norse culture (especially a sort of Wagnerian strong warrior mindset)
5. Fascination with Aryan culture (who if anyone has has studied their history, Aryans have nothing to do with Christianity or the West at all, they were are warrior people that invaded the Dravidians in India, this is why the swastika, it is a symbol of fortune from India eastward)
6. Belief in superstition (Hitler was known for his interest in a number of relics from religions and even stuff associated with witchcraft, he worshiped power not a God who taught forgiveness of sins)
7. Oh yes, and social Darwinism and Nietzsche's superman ideal.
Were there Christian priests on his payroll? Sure, and they have to live with that. But there were also Christians who hid Jews and other groups in their church catacombs, or who helped them escape.
Christianity was not responsible for Hitler. Nor was God. A gas that left him insane was, being rejected by a Jew for art school was, and the fact that he took power was, that the public let him was. Hell, if Darwin had only spread his findings among other scientists and not shared with the public, social darwinisn and eugenics would not exist, and we would have one less cause for this conversation.
Show me where in any of his philosophy there was any belief in turning the other cheek, loving your neighbor, or comforting the stranger. There simply wasnt. He may have claimed to be Christian for political reasons, but this is not the same as being christian.
Well...me actually old thing! I don't have a single nice thing to say about religion. It's divisive, primitive, dangerous, it takes advantage of the weak and then has the cheek to expect immunity from criticism for no other reason than it's someone’s "belief". If there was any other 'belief' that caused as much trouble and hatred in our society, it would be banned without question.
The sooner it goes the better as far as I'm concerned.
Yes but I suspect even you aren't on a programme of destroying freedom of conscience to impose atheism on people against their will. It's one thing to want religion gone ASAP, or to not have a nice thing to say about it ... but we are not about forcing people to do anything other than stop forcing themselves on others.
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