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I think it is absolutely disgusting that the christian community has rallied around this POS serial child molester. Who only confessed after 13 years and the police report being made public. Why is it that no one is rallying around the victims? It's be cause they are female and matter less to this screwed up community.
"Poor Josh! He molested a 5 year old, but he said he was sorry" Oh and "She forgave him!" I wonder how that went? "Brother said he was sorry for forcibly putting his hands down your pants and skin on skin probing your privates with his fingers. Now it is for you to forgive?"
If this was a black kid who did this they would be calling for blood.
Oh and family friend state trooper (who's job it was to check VIN numbers at car dealerships) gave him a stern talking to. (Before being convicted for child pornography and being sentenced to 56 years in prison.)
The only reason Jim Bob reported it to him was he was told to by the elders, and to skirt a reckless endangerment charge for allowing the predator to remain in the home with his victims.
I almost forgot, seeing that the victims of this serial child molester granted him forgiveness they are precluded by their faith to ever talk about this again. Good luck getting their story.
The whole thing stinks to.. excuse the term HIGH HEAVEN.
It should be noted that it's not the Christian community at large, but primarily the far-right evangelical Protestant Christian community. None of my Christian friends are any less than outraged, and further outraged at the amount of excusing and mental gymnastics that some of their counterparts are engaging in.
It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
Unfortunately the following scriptures tell the victims to forgive the predator as long as they repent over and over and over.
That's what's wrong with this book. How many times must a 5 year old forgive her molester.
It should have ended with the bastard being thrown into the sea.
While justice may not have occurred, I still don't hold with the idea of injustice toward a perpetrator. The Duggars bigger vice may have been their avoidance of any real help for their daughters.
While my wife's BIL was in jail, before his trial, I still visited him and took him cigarettes and did not wish ill upon him although I certainly knew he would not escape punishment. The five years he got may have been sufficient. The interesting thing is--although my wife's sister stayed married to him for those five years, within a year after release from prison they were divorced and she had two kids to raise on her own--the daughter whom my wife and I suspected had also been abused. She was an attractive young lady but grew up into drugs and promiscuity--married for awhile, but lost both her children in her own divorce. Whether by direct abuse or by absence of a decent role model, my wife's BIL is still accountable to God.
We left the state where my wife's family lived and where she and I had met in college to move out west. Now, years later, the wounds are repaired between them--primarily because her ex-BIL proved to be a jerk even AFTER prison and despite them all standing up for him.
I have a question for people who pray to god for answers. One of the Duggar family members said ,"this entire incident had brought the family closer to god." Do you think their god told them to wait a year before reporting the crime?
I think that was just Christian-speak in an attempt to minimize the situation. Since they all drew 'closer to God' we can surmise that the whole experience was just good for everyone.
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Originally Posted by Eusebius
Yes, sorry but boys will be boys. They don't have the mature brain that adults do and cannot know what their actions will bring about. That is why minors who commit crimes are judged differently in courts of law. The article says the abuse was ALEDGED and it says nothing about what you said above.
I don't condone what he did. But boys and girls of all faiths and non faiths do the same thing. Just the other day I heard of this young girl (13 years old) who I personally know who did a B job on a young boy. She is an unbeliever. Do I think all unbelievers do that? No. Do I think all young Christian boys molest girls? No. Do I think all unbeliever young girls molest boys? No. So rather than bring in the Christian faith into the equation why didn't the OP just post the information without the Christianity stuff?
Boys will be boys? No. With that statement - you condone everything. 14 year old boys do not lift up the dress of their little sister while sitting on their lap and put his hands in their pants. No.
I firmly believe that the Quiverfull perversion of Christianity certainly allows for the molestation of young girls and women. They are taught to submit first to their Fathers/Husbands or to their brothers if they remain unmarried. They are isolated and cut off from the world/homeschooling Christian Education. The women have no autonomy at all.
A breeding ground (no pun intended) for abuse. Does anyone think it's a problem that the state trooper who was to talk to Josh has been imprisoned twice for child porn? And their other 'counselor" Goddard - just stepped down from his position due to allegations of sexual misconduct against girls and women?
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Does that mean he is a pedophile for life, beyond all hope though? Funny I don't hear much talk about the fact that he confessed his sin to his parents and got therapy. The reality I see is the media, atheists and other like minded people just hate the Duggers so much that they are tearing into this story like shark to bait. They want to see this family ruined and destroyed because of their Christian beliefs.
I do not think it necessarily means he is a pedophile 'for life'. The thing is - he did not get therapy. Not by any qualified therapist specializing in sexual offenses or victims of same.
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Originally Posted by Eusebius
So are you saying God should not be merciful to the sinner? that God should just throw all failures on the eternal trash pile?
Because God forgives - does that mean there are no consequences for ones actions? No.
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Originally Posted by jjrose
I'm sure if my son were molesting my daughter he would be removed from the same house as her. I would not make a victim live with their molester.
How many folks defending Josh would be willing to leave their young daughters in his care? I wonder.
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Originally Posted by Petunia 100
How can we hear the victims' side of the story when they are silent?
You will never hear their side of the story unless one of them breaks free from the Quiverfull cult. They are not encouraged to have any independent thought or speech.
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Originally Posted by Eusebius
If you have a 14 year old boy and he confessed to you that he was fondling your daughter, would you take him to the police and for the rest of his life he would have been listed as a pedophile and no one would know the actual facts behind the case. All they would know is he is a sex offender his entire life. Or would you privately try to get counseling for the kid? Personally, I'd keep it private if I could.
Would you seek counseling from other predators? Hopefully not. This young man did not have any qualified counseling. He spent a full year in the house with his victims - AFTER Jim B and Michelle knew about it AND then - he got sent to do some constructions work. Come on.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
Of course not. Why would you think that?
But the fact is, this was a 14 year old and his sister that was close in age. It was almost 15 years ago. All parties are grown up and well-adjusted. There appears to have been no long-term damage. Whatever they did to address the situation appears to have worked.
Really? So you think victims of sexual molestation have no long term damage? Do some research man. Just because the women are silent and it's all shrouded in the idea of christian forgiveness - does NOT mean there is any long term damage. You are minimizing anything the GIRLS actually went through in your effort to bend over backwards to protect the boy. Just like their Mom and Dad.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
I guess forgiveness doesn't exist in your brand of Christianity. We happen to believe the a repented sinner can be RENEWED through faith in Jesus Christ. They are only hypocrites if Josh is actually engaging in this activity. He's not. This happened 14 years ago.
You have no idea what Josh is or is not doing. None at all. Does forgiveness mean - no consequences? But how nice that EVERYONE 'drew closer to God' after the molestation. I guess it must have been fun for everyone.
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Originally Posted by willingsniper
Does anyone really think the 12-14 year old boy was acting abnormally. Given that he was acting on healthy biological imperatives I give him a pass at that age and counsel him on appropriate societal behavior.
I don't agree with the whole Duggar construct and do know that a sexually repressed pubescent boy that's not allowed to 'rub one out' is going to act out. Sisters or not he has the opposite sex parading by all the time. Yes his sisters, but yes the opposite sex. He's a walking hormone at that age
Sweet Jesus. Yes, he was acting abnormally! I don't want him burned at the stake but to charactize this as normal is to minimize what happened to those girls.
Which - is what the parents have done all along.
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Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative
This is not about their faith. This is not about their faith.
This is about a family with dark secrets, and what lengths they will go to keep them. This is not about their faith.
It is about the Duggars, not the children, not the victims, not Josh either.
Josh is a juvenile sex offender. Pedophile? Perhaps that is harsh as there is little evidence he has continued the pattern. It is not uncommon for people like Josh to be victims themselves.
There is no therapeutic value to sending your child away with no support. Josh had no support. He was punished, and given no help from a professional. Imagine what he must have been feeling? You can only stuff that anger for so long.
The girls? They were molested. The fact he had five victims over a period of time is very concerning. The Duggars did nothing but pray. It is the answer of people with secrets that must be protected. They want you to think we attack their faith. It is another smoke screen to protect their secrets.
Mrs Duggar did publish some rubbish about wearing make-up, and doing your hair every day when your husband comes home. She also makes herself available have sex at any time and believes every woman should do the same. Her eyes were never on her children. He comes first. She will protect him above them.
Josh will be allowed to fall on his sword for the family. Make no mistake, these parents should be held responsible.
I cannot imagine the trauma every one of these young adults are experiencing including the post traumatic stress. Perhaps Josh and his victims will seek professional help now. A licensed professional experienced in sexual abuse.
I agree with eery word of this. The only good to come out of it is if more of those girls can break way. Because there is NO WAY Jim B or Michelle could have allowed a qualified counselor into their home asking questions that they did not want to address.
Why do the Duggars never formally address the fact that they are part of the cult otherwise known as Quiverfull? They are; everyone knows they are but they are portrayed on television as just one big happy Christian family.
Look at some blogs of ex-quiverfull members. Not a great life for the womenfolk.
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Originally Posted by Wardendresden
I wonder if those girls got any psychological counseling. My experience with having a sex abused niece in our household was that they definitely need it.
Highly doubtful in keeping with the traditions and teaching of that religion. Basically, it's all their fault - the women are not only responsible for their own 'purity' but for that of the men as well - which is why they wear all the long dresses, etc etc.
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Originally Posted by Cinebar
And if it was one of the girls, maybe she will be the lucky one that breaks from that dogma and goes on to make her own decisions and perhaps get an education and to realize there is a life for her beyond nonstop breeding and subservience to men.
This would be IDEAL. I'm guessing one or two may leave the fold.
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Originally Posted by jeffbase40
And the only thing you do here is make me despise self righteous people even more who will gleefully jump at any opportunity to publically disgrace a family that went through a tragedy and put it behind them. The bottom line is we don't know all the facts yet people like yourself have absolutely no problem filling in the blanks and playing judge, jury and executor. People act like they know there was this grand conspiracy with the police to cover it up and Josh is STILL a dangerous child rapist who should be thrown in prison or put to death!
This is the extremity from social media which only shows such extreme outrage if a Christian is involved. It took over 20 women reporting being raped by Bill Cosby before his name finally got trashed and yet people still defend him and actually blame the victims. No one is defending Josh's behavior, but forgiveness and repentance are a part of Christianity. If that just disgusts you so so much then I feel sorry for you.
You have no idea if the girls have been able to 'put this behind them'. Again you minimize the victims of sexual abuse in your fervor to defend the abuser.
The Duggars are not your garden variety Christians. They belong to a cult in which women are often abused.
It's a perversion of Christianity. It should not be glorified on television and I'm guessing it won't be for much longer.
While justice may not have occurred, I still don't hold with the idea of injustice toward a perpetrator.
Right. In this day and age of understanding that people don't act in a vacuum and that very often those who hurt others, have been hurt themselves, why does it seem so many people still have an attitude of wanting to see them punished above all else? Shouldn't the goal be to make sure the person will not harm anyone, while at the same time working towards getting them the help they need to change?
One of the most healing things those girls could experience is for their brother to understand how his actions have harmed them and acknowledge it and show by his actions (not just his words) that he is sincerely sorry.
Right. In this day and age of understanding that people don't act in a vacuum and that very often those who hurt others, have been hurt themselves, why does it seem so many people still have an attitude of wanting to see them punished above all else? Shouldn't the goal be to make sure the person will not harm anyone, while at the same time working towards getting them the help they need to change?
One of the most healing things those girls could experience is for their brother to understand how his actions have harmed them and acknowledge it and show by his actions (not just his words) that he is sincerely sorry.
I believe he's sorry it got out. He has gotten to live for the last 14 years as a rock star.
I think that depends on what they told TLC while they were in talks for a reality show.
He continued to be a sexually repressed teen in the bosom of his family. Those impulses do not go away.
His victims were available 24/7, and now they knew their voices were unheard. This is child abuse.
Do we know he was sexually repressed? Or, maybe he just has a "taste" for little girls and if that is the case, he still has it.
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Originally Posted by WeHa
No I don't think he's a pedophile. I think he's a a normal teen who had normal sexual urges that happen during puberty. Where I think it went wrong is that he wasn't raised in a family that talked about puberty or sex and he couldn't go asking his parents because it's been engrained in him that these feelings are sinful. As well as the girls he molested not knowing what was going on and since in his world a womans purity is her most important value the girls he molested weren't able to say what happened.
I think it's a really tragic example that you can't make sexualiry, puberty, sexual urges etc... go away just because you want them to.
No, nothing normal about sexually abusing prepubescent children. That is not a normal sexual urge. Do you know that he was raised in a family that never discussed sex?
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Originally Posted by Ms.Mathlete
I don't know either, but repeatedly fondling 5 separate girls on multiple occasions sounds more like predatory behavior than anything else. Normal sexually-repressed teenagers find a quiet place to whack off; they don't molest preteen girls.
Right but if they are attracted to little girls and/or boys, "whacking off" will not satisfy their need. Predators aren't just trying to fulfill a sexual desire/need.
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Originally Posted by charolastra00
I find it hard to believe that just teenage frustration in a socially isolated family led to this. The victim wanting to have the records expunged is a minor, right? Joy Anna is the only one who is not 18. She would have been 4 years old when the abuse started. The next oldest one was 8. The others were 9, 10, and 12. 14 year olds, even incredibly frustrated ones, don't find prepubescent girls attractive. They just don't. Especially not their sisters.
He didn't have one victim - he had 5. That's not an urge, that's an obsession.
Pedophiles, however, do. There's some likelihood that he was somehow sexually abused himself.
The girls were asleep when he did this. He knew what he was doing was wrong. Who knows how many times it happened where it wasn't reported? Maybe it continued with other siblings - especially the younger ones who certainly wouldn't have had any idea of what had happened (there's no way there was open communication or a warning to the little ones about this) and they were too afraid to tell anyone. This is the sort of behavior that doesn't change.
I agree with that^. I do wonder if porn was in the house and maybe on the computer and they had to clean things up before anyone found out and probably brainwash the girls. I don't think if the girls would have told that the parents would have done anything.
This is sad, but not surprising. Christian Fundamentalist and reality show star Josh Duggar, who works for the anti-gay hate group Family Research Counci,l molested his own sisters. What a disgusting, hypocritical dirt bag! And his family too... for covering it up.
Seems like all these big Fundy anti-gay "warriors" have some serious sexual and/or dysfunctional skeletons in their closets. These nuts claim it's the gays who are destroying families? HA! This pig was molesting his sisters!
I have no desires of pedophilia or incest, but then I've had a healthy acceptance of who I am and a healthy attitude about sex. Maybe this is what happens in the Duggar cult when you're raised with such extreme oppression. He probably thought it was better to feel up Sis than to masturbate!
"All"? Not all. And two wrongs don't make a right either. Sexual immorality is sexual immorality no matter who is committing it.
You need to understand also that if one has a desire for children that masturbating won't make that go away.
I don't think sexual preference comes from availability of choices or does it?
There are a lot of sociopaths and people with narcissistic personality disorder in as much as they use other people always putting themselves first, they use God in the same way. I see this father doing that. He was using God as a cover for the life he was leading.
You all get too involved with your television shows. Really, what kind of people do you think this would attract. I remember Jerry Springer from long ago and this family would have been perfect for that show.
Ditto. My first priority was protecting my rapist . I can't even image how much worse it would have been if my guardians were covering up for him, too.
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Originally Posted by Ringo1
Really? So you think victims of sexual molestation have no long term damage? Do some research man. Just because the women are silent and it's all shrouded in the idea of christian forgiveness - does NOT mean there is any long term damage. You are minimizing anything the GIRLS actually went through in your effort to bend over backwards to protect the boy. Just like their Mom and Dad.
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