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Right...I did not catch the reason for why you said "You are letting your "Xtianity" show through...." and saw it as a 'warning' of some kind.
But yes, the understanding of choice in relation to good and evil as determined by the one experiencing the experience...not by the experience itself.
The experience can be 'evil' as determined by the one experiencing but can still be reacted to through the expression of 'good' also determined by the one experiencing the 'evil'.
Thus the one experiencing the evil expresses goodness into the situation, and what will be will be.
Things may even remain 'evil' but this does not dissuade the one experiencing from being 'good'.
The inner strength the one experiencing 'evil' receives in being able to make the choice to express 'good' and persist with that choice regardless of change of circumstance f(or 'good' or 'evil'), is testament to that one's belief in that one's idea of G()D.
For ordinarily it is the belief in that idea of G()D which propels the one experiencing to choose 'good' even while l(0)(0)king evil in the eye and taking whatever the evil administers over the one experiencing the evil administration. The important thing is to remain good.
On the other hand...
One persons 'good' can be another persons 'evil'.
Thus someone can look evil in the eye and say "No! I choose to respond with goodness" and do so without the slightest belief in any idea of G()D.
Which is to say, such are able to be GOoD without G()D. They see the D-evil and choice to respond with goodness.
But sometimes they see the D-evil in G()D, certainly they see so in the Abrahamic idea of G()D, and thus reject that as 'evil' and in doing so believe they are being 'good'.
I can see their point but also I can see that they paint a lot of things with the same brush. I see this is a tendency with most who are trying to sort out the difference between 'good' and 'evil' - perhaps the whole point is to ditch the concepts altogether as unreliable and set about just being nice to one another for a change.
Because such a thing is possible. All that is required is the one experiencing life to choose to do so.
because as humans free will is about taking responsibility for the choices we make
Since when is having a feeling a choice? Several of the forbidden things you listed in world B have nothing to do with conscious choices - they are feelings which are prohibited. Are people going to be killed simply for having the wrong feeling? That's not going to work out very well.
Hmm... subtle 'warning' to a 'sister' from a 'servant'.
Worlds 'A' or world 'B'? That is the question.
It is easy enough given the correct data to understand how this (real) world is perfect in relation to the possibility that human beings as a species have the opportunity of achieving godhead through the tribulation of experience in said real world environment.
It may evolve that way or diminish through ignorance, but either way it won't fail to offer the chance for humanity to become its own god to itself.
What kind of G()D that will turn out to be depends on majority rule? Choose wisely...clues on correct choices are everywhere everyday for everyone in position to being able to contemplate such.
Worlds 'A' and 'B' don't exist and thus are not choices at all. This world does exist but it is administered by policies which are not often your basic run-of-the-mill-human friendly. As the saying goes..."Those with the gold make the rules." Drop the letter 'L' from the word G O L D and who do we have????
It is my view that the Abrahamic god is mostly modeled after 'those with the gold', although in some places 'he' seems quite the reasonable chap...almost as if 'he' too is evolving...learning godhead...but imperfect pretending to be perfect is deception - but who is the god and who puts the words in 'his' mouth, and how much gold does it cost them to be able to do so, and is the investment worth it all?
Each to their own. There is little the basic run-of-the-mill-human can do to change the rules set by those with the gold so (I at least) don't get me knickers twisted in that regard.
What I do - and what i understand Tzaphkiel is saying is that we have the choice in how we decide to express our selves into this world, kindness, love etc...so we exist in an environment which tempts us to act without kindness and love etc because it is 'easier' than swimming against the flow.
Like I said - a perfect place to raise a potential G()D. Its not guaranteed success but is given every opportunity to make it so. What kind of G()D is necessary for this type of environment?
Since when is having a feeling a choice? Several of the forbidden things you listed in world B have nothing to do with conscious choices - they are feelings which are prohibited. Are people going to be killed simply for having the wrong feeling? That's not going to work out very well.
living a life of peace and kindness and dignity and respect is a choice. If a person has the desire to let go of greed, anger, war, violence, brutality, arrogance, and hate, then they are shown how to achieve that, in the same way a child is taught peaceful ways of living with others. so if someone has the desire to choose world B over world A, they are freely given all that is needed to succeed in that arena. It is win-win in every sense of the word. Feelings are driven and dictated by our thoughts and beliefs. We are free to change our thoughts and beliefs...and our feelings follow suit. (For instance a belief worth examining and possibly changing is "People have no choice about how they feel.")
but the desire has to be there, and the willingness to take responsibility for our own thought, speech and action. it's not a trick question. no one is a victim of big bad scary feelings they can't control....it is simply a matter of learning different ways. and it starts with the desired outcome....do I want to live on world A or B.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-27-2015 at 08:21 AM..
living a life of peace and kindness and dignity and respect is a choice. If a person has the desire to let go of greed, anger, war, violence, brutality, arrogance, and hate, then they are shown how to achieve that, in the same way a child is taught peaceful ways of living with others.
Do you have any research that shows that people can simply decide not to feel angry and as a result never feel anger ever again? Seems like quite a stretch to me.
But maybe you're confusing behavior with feelings or something. Or maybe this is just some totally made up hypothetical which requires us to ignore actual psychology for the rhetoric to work?
Quote:
(For instance a belief worth examining and possibly changing is "People have no choice about how they feel.")
Reality doesn't change simply because one wishes it were different.
Quote:
but the desire has to be there, and the willingness to take responsibility for our own thought, speech and action. it's not a trick question. no one is a victim of big bad scary feelings they can't control....it is simply a matter of learning different ways. and it starts with the desired outcome....do I want to live on world A or B.
Again, I'd be curious to see if this lines up with reality. Apply your idea of taking "responsibility" to, say, depression or a similar mental illness and let us know what the peer reviewed literature says.
Do you have any research that shows that people can simply decide not to feel angry and as a result never feel anger ever again? Seems like quite a stretch to me.
If you live in a world where there is no sickness, war, greed, poverty and everyone is kind to you and there is no injustice, then what is there to be angry about? In a world like that there would be no need for anger.
Sure, when you hear about another murder that happened then it is only natural to feel angry, but if you have none of those things that make people angry then there will be no anger.
I guess one could say that if your car were to break down and you were late for work, you might get upset/angry, but if you live in a world that is already so serene, I think little things like that would affect and trouble us less. I think one reason people getting angry at things that don't really deserve that reaction is because of the stressful world we live in.
Do you have any research that shows that people can simply decide not to feel angry and as a result never feel anger ever again? Seems like quite a stretch to me.
But maybe you're confusing behavior with feelings or something. Or maybe this is just some totally made up hypothetical which requires us to ignore actual psychology for the rhetoric to work?
Reality doesn't change simply because one wishes it were different.
Again, I'd be curious to see if this lines up with reality. Apply your idea of taking "responsibility" to, say, depression or a similar mental illness and let us know what the peer reviewed literature says.
Similar to evolution and physics...you have to mentally checkout your inclination to understand how such far-fetched concepts could be practical by ignoring the science behind psychology and just "imagine". Much like one might imagine being able to fly like superman.
Do you have any research that shows that people can simply decide not to feel angry and as a result never feel anger ever again? Seems like quite a stretch to me.
Reality doesn't change simply because one wishes it were different.
It's not about wishing, it is about consciously choosing. Our reality is created by our thoughts and beliefs. Our feelings are driven and dictated by our thoughts and beliefs. When we change our beliefs and our thoughts, then our feelings change, and our reality changes. it requires an awareness of what our thoughts, beliefs, and world view are; and then to consciously choose ones that are life-affirming, and reject those that are life-sapping and harmful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC
Again, I'd be curious to see if this lines up with reality. Apply your idea of taking "responsibility" to, say, depression or a similar mental illness and let us know what the peer reviewed literature says.
Using the example of depression or mental illness, a person can write down all their thoughts and beliefs about illness, about healing, about doctors, about sickness, about health. For instance a person might believe "only doctors can make me well" or "whatever a doctor says is true" or "only prescription drugs are real medicine" or "if it isn't written in a medical journal in peer reviewed literature then it won't work for me so there is no point in even trying" or "mental illness runs in the family, my fate is sealed."
if a person limits themselves in this way through their thoughts and beliefs, then they cut themselves off from a whole vast array of other resources that make them well and keep them healthy. Our responsibility is to be aware of our thoughts and beliefs and know that we can choose them and change them. When we do, our reality changes.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-27-2015 at 12:47 PM..
It might be a great exercise in imagination but what is missing is the bit in between A and B.
The world we live in now does not have to be imagined. It is real and occupies the whole spectrum of human behavior.
There is no imaged plan on how to transform A into B.
What is imagined is that some G()D from the sky is going to have to force the world of A to become the world of B. Some messiah to fix the world problems. Some superman to do the work for us.
Humans have been made weak by the false promise of messiahs which they gobble up readily enough and rest their faith in such stories, all the while the storytellers continue to prosper in the business of keeping the listeners enthralled and their imaginations fixed on the hope of a lie.
The only way the world will ever change is if human beings decide to change it for the better themselves and that won't happen while the bulk of them are investing their faith in the imagined stories of superheroes doing what they themselves are capable of doing, should they see the need to do so, which they don't because the messiah is going to do it for them right?
Perhaps through them but not for them.
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Hmm... subtle 'warning' to a 'sister' from a 'servant'. 
