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Interesting thought. There are those who insist that Christianity will win (or maybe Islam) over "agnostic" or Deist theism. I hope that irreligion will relegate organised religionto the social Boondocks, and people will just have a vague belief in something more.
Who is the determinate of the poisoned churches and way off Christians? You can't use the bible as reference because they also use the bible as a frame of reference. There are no established referees or judges to my knowledge. And if somehow there would be a consensus, could you call the poisoned churches and way off Christians, Christians?
I think its clear when people tell us to follow idea's that counter common sense. died, woke up, moved a rock, and flew away for our sins being one of them. That teaching is poising their church.
Even if many churches are poisoned, and many Christians are way off as compared to scripture and Jesus' message and ministry, it doesn't mean God/Jesus are going anywhere, or are going to disappear. They will be around and waiting, like the imagery of Jesus at the door knocking. Our cheap and often foolish ways won't discourage the eternal. They know us, even if they can't force us to change.
The years fly by, times change, nations rise and fall, the cosmic cycle continues. Much of that is the nature of existence. But some things remain, regardless of what we do. Those who refuse to acknowledge that part of nature and the universe will understandably live under a dark cloud of gloom that taints all their thoughts and words. We see a lot of that cold gloom on this forum.
Have a narrow scope - heavily focused on man and transience - and be caught up with the meaningless of it all. Broaden the scope to sense and see the eternal (including the vastness of nature and the universe), one can be encouraged. Man is just a drop in the huge sea of the universe, and we need to position ourselves relative to that. But man wants himself to be king and center of his universe, which will always be foolishness.
How do you even know you're following what the original Jesus said??????
For the first hundred years after Jesus' crucifixion NOTHING he said had been written down. It wasn't until recently that scientists were able to date the first handful of fragments of gospels discovered like the Ryland P52 to the middle of the 2nd century. No one has been able to uncover ANYTHING Jesus said earlier than that so we can only speculate what the Jesus of 0-30 CE or the many Jesuses afterwards upon whom the Jesus legend was built were teaching. It's a total blank in the historical record. The gospels WERE written in the 2nd century and their contents had to have from a variety of sources i.e. fables, traditions, stories from the Old Testament, other pagan dying/rising gods, imaginations of the writers, etc. . There was nothing else--no other sources for the writers to draw on so we will NEVER know what the original Jesus taught.
yeah ozzy., I agree with some of your stuff. That being ... both camps have knuckle heads in them. But "foul langue of non-believers tells you ...." sounds exactly like some of the knuckle head rhetoric I hear in theist fundy camps. I hate the fact that soft spoken laid back people are instantly taken as "insightful". Some of them are laid back soft spoken liars.
foul langue doesn't determine the validity of a claim. remove the foul langue and see what is said.
The Bleeping sun is hot today.
The sun is hot today.
what? so the word bleep made the claim wrong? or does the fact that my thermometer in my car reads 2 degrees?
well, actually the sun is always hot, in a relative way.
Actually I agree with your point a little. Bad language per se doesn't determine the validity of any argument, but depending on the discussion it can make their argument come off as ignorant or just plain abusive. Still, I'm not really defending Ozzie here.
Doesn't it matter more what was said than by whom?
What matters is the belief in God and a desire to be what God wants us to become. All the fallible human speculation and explanation about it in religious dogma act more as stumbling blocks to belief in God. If we are sincere with ourselves, we know in our "heart of hearts" (we know what that means so forget the heart is a pump for blood silliness) what is good, decent, kind, compassionate, merciful and what actually considers the well-being of everyone involved. We don't need words "written in ink" to acknowledge the truth wherever it is encountered. That is why it is easy to justify love as our mandate except when we revere words "written in ink" that contradict it.
Actually I agree with your point a little. Bad language per se doesn't determine the validity of any argument, but depending on the discussion it can make their argument come off as ignorant or just plain abusive. Still, I'm not really defending Ozzie here.
very true.
if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, but talks like a sailor ... it may be a rude duck.
Foul language apparently is a sign of intelligence. Do not blame me, I believe there was a science paper on it. So thank you for the unintended compliment.
But at least we do not fly planes into buildings, or throw believers off of mountains.
And do not forget the idea of eternal torture is a Christian idea. This subconscious wish tells me everything about Christians.
I understand exactly what you are talking about. I have no problem with that kind of swearing.
But trust me, the kind of bitter and angry swearing I hear from people getting angry at religion is NOT the same thing.
What matters is the belief in God and a desire to be what God wants us to become. All the fallible human speculation and explanation about it in religious dogma act more as stumbling blocks to belief in God. If we are sincere with ourselves, we know in our "heart of hearts" (we know what that means so forget the heart is a pump for blood silliness) what is good, decent, kind, compassionate, merciful and what actually considers the well-being of everyone involved. We don't need words "written in ink" to acknowledge the truth wherever it is encountered. That is why it is easy to justify love as our mandate except when we revere words "written in ink" that contradict it.
a belief in god is doesn't matter.
But the rest does matter.
a reasonable amount of love, compassion, understanding, empathy, altruism, and a willing to help are what matter.
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