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Is it possible that it could have been coincidence that you did your ask, and it happened? As example, it's forecast storm and you had a family picnic planned. You do your ask to your God, and no storm occurs. Is that divine intervention, coincidence, or the wind patterns blew the storm away from your area? How could you test that?
Actually, this came up one year when I was traveling out west with my grandmother. She prayed that the impending rain not interfere with our day of tourism of the Bandlands. I pointed out that the farmers in the area were experiencing a terrible trout. She was confident that God would see our afternoon of picture taking as more important than the farmers who were in deep financial trouble due to the long drought.
It's sort of like the Latino boxers who pray and cross themselves before a boxing match. So God will let them beat up the other boxer.
Actually, this came up one year when I was traveling out west with my grandmother. She prayed that the impending rain not interfere with our day of tourism of the Bandlands. I pointed out that the farmers in the area were experiencing a terrible trout. She was confident that God would see our afternoon of picture taking as more important than the farmers who were in deep financial trouble due to the long drought.
It's sort of like the Latino boxers who pray and cross themselves before a boxing match. So God will let them beat up the other boxer.
It's really something to be proud of.
That always bothers me. Not just boxing, but in general when people invoke their religion to win a sporting event.
OT, though. Sorry.
Back to topic, I am going to do what I rarely do and quote verses.
34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’
40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
Matthew 25, for attribution purposes.
This is the from the passage containing the ever-popular fundamentalist focus on "separating sheep from goats", but that's not what it's about. To me, this clearly illustrates the idea that a person who may not self-identify as Christian may indeed be just that, and that what Christ taught gets lost when the human desire for rules and parameter comes into play.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 10-14-2017 at 06:46 PM..
Here's a dose of Buddhist scripture for you. Hopefully it will convert you since you think that is the purpose of this thread:
"33. Just as a fletcher straightens an arrow shaft, even so the discerning man straightens his mind — so fickle and unsteady, so difficult to guard. 34. As a fish when pulled out of water and cast on land throbs and quivers, even so is this mind agitated. Hence should one abandon the realm of Mara. 35. Wonderful, indeed, it is to subdue the mind, so difficult to subdue, ever swift, and seizing whatever it desires. A tamed mind brings happiness. 36. Let the discerning man guard the mind, so difficult to detect and extremely subtle, seizing whatever it desires. A guarded mind brings happiness. 37. Dwelling in the cave (of the heart), the mind, without form, wanders far and alone. Those who subdue this mind are liberated from the bonds of Mara. 38. Wisdom never becomes perfect in one whose mind is not steadfast, who knows not the Good Teaching and whose faith wavers. 39. There is no fear for an awakened one, whose mind is not sodden (by lust) nor afflicted (by hate), and who has gone beyond both merit and demerit. [6] 40. Realizing that this body is as fragile as a clay pot, and fortifying this mind like a well-fortified city, fight out Mara with the sword of wisdom. Then, guarding the conquest, remain unattached. 41. Ere long, alas! this body will lie upon the earth, unheeded and lifeless, like a useless log. 42. Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself a greater harm. 43. Neither mother, father, nor any other relative can do one greater good than one's own well-directed mind."
Ok. If you want to convert me, then I would need to understand this Mara GOD And where you derive this authority from. Muslims believe in the Koran, Christians in the Bible. What is the Buddhist Authority? So I can go straight to the source, not that I don't believe you. Just this stuff makes no sense without a proper understanding of your GOD. Otherwise it could be just discounted to be of mere man
Are these words related to salvation somehow? If you want to convert me, could you reply with the words related to salvation. They'll make sense when I understand GOD Mara first.
Christians often use Bible Gateway website, I'd like to find a website similar to it regarding Buddism to study this? thanks
Ok. If you want to convert me, then I would need to understand this Mara GOD And where you derive this authority from. Muslims believe in the Koran, Christians in the Bible. What is the Buddhist Authority? So I can go straight to the source, not that I don't believe you. Just this stuff makes no sense without a proper understanding of your GOD. Otherwise it could be just discounted to be of mere man
Are these words related to salvation somehow? If you want to convert me, could you reply with the words related to salvation. They'll make sense when I understand GOD Mara first.
Christians often use Bible Gateway website, I'd like to find a website similar to it regarding Buddism to study this? thanks
Ah, but that's the point. I, and Buddhists in general, have no desire to convert anyone. It is our belief -- totally in opposition to your religion and belief -- that people should come to Buddhism when they are actively seeking fulfillment...not when someone else is shoving it down people's throats. Y'all like to push people into identifying with something they have not identified with in the past (hence the relationship to the actual purpose of the thread). There may be some errant Buddhists who try to get people to convert, but even living in Thailand, as I did, I NEVER saw that happen. We trust people to think for themselves.
Authority? We don't need a boss who will send us to heaven or hell. Our authority is in intellectual and philosophical inner-debate. We are totally free to think. And if we walk into any Buddhist temple, there are no questions asked about whether or not be have been saved. Even as a Westerner who was often assumed not to be Buddhist, I was always welcomed in any temple I visited, and no one tried to convert me. If I had questions, they were answered...if I asked them.
Buddhism does not have a God. Buddha was not a god. He was simply a teacher who attempted to help people understand how to alleviate human suffering, both their own suffering and the suffering of others.
Mara was a demon, probably fictional, but NOT a God.
And no, I won't suggest a Buddhist website for the reason I explained above. If you want it, you will seek it.
Ok. If you want to convert me, then I would need to understand this Mara GOD And where you derive this authority from. Muslims believe in the Koran, Christians in the Bible. What is the Buddhist Authority? So I can go straight to the source, not that I don't believe you. Just this stuff makes no sense without a proper understanding of your GOD. Otherwise it could be just discounted to be of mere man
Are these words related to salvation somehow? If you want to convert me, could you reply with the words related to salvation. They'll make sense when I understand GOD Mara first.
Christians often use Bible Gateway website, I'd like to find a website similar to it regarding Buddism to study this? thanks
Why do you feel you need some sort of "authority" for your spiritual self?
Honest question. Think it through and see if you can give me a real answer without quotations, one from your own mind.
Ok. If you want to convert me, then I would need to understand this Mara GOD And where you derive this authority from. Muslims believe in the Koran, Christians in the Bible. What is the Buddhist Authority? So I can go straight to the source, not that I don't believe you. Just this stuff makes no sense without a proper understanding of your GOD. Otherwise it could be just discounted to be of mere man
Are these words related to salvation somehow? If you want to convert me, could you reply with the words related to salvation. They'll make sense when I understand GOD Mara first.
Christians often use Bible Gateway website, I'd like to find a website similar to it regarding Buddism to study this? thanks
Well, I guess you could say Mara is a god in the Hindu pantheon, but since Buddhists don't believe in god or gods you should think of the name as having been appropriated for the concept of what we view life as and which is considered illusion for those who have not achieved enlightenment.
In the quoted passages you may see that Mara is not something that is to be desired or served, but to be transcended or realized to be false. In #33 and #34 for instance clarity of mind is extolled and the idea that Mara is to be avoided.
Unfortunately, Buddhism is not really a religion as such, though some of the disciplines seem to be. It is more of a philosophy based on the idea of obtaining that clarity of vision that frees the person from the illusions of our existence, and though there are a number of different texts and a few schools of discipline there is no definitive text like the Bible, Qu'ran, Upanishads or even Tao te Ching, so it's not quite as easy to get a handle on it.
That always bothers me. Not just boxing, but in general when people invoke their religion to win a sporting event.
OT, though. Sorry.
Back to topic, I am going to do what I rarely do and quote verses.
34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’
40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’
Matthew 25, for attribution purposes.
This is the from the passage containing the ever-popular fundamentalist focus on "separating sheep from goats", but that's not what it's about. To me, this clearly illustrates the idea that a person who may not self-identify as Christian may indeed be just that, and that what Christ taught gets lost when the human desire for rules and parameter comes into play.
Good post. Also brings to mind the Good Samaritan story.
Them as talks holy ain't worth spit compared to one who does holy.
Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’
37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’
40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.
To me, this clearly illustrates the idea that a person who may not self-identify as Christian may indeed be just that, and that what Christ taught gets lost when the human desire for rules and parameter comes into play.
I wholeheartedly agree with you that a person may be a Christian without self-identifying as a Christian.
Doing the will of the Father in Heaven yet maybe not even knowing of the word "Christian"
Except....the scenario above, Jesus is not teaching such. And the word Christian wasn't introduced until well after Christs death and resurrection. It was introduced in Antioch w/Apostle Paul in the book of Acts.
So it's impossible for these verses to prove that which is here nor there. Unimportant, really.
What is important is to correctly understand what you've posted here to back up your beliefs about eternal life. My real concern is...there no example here of anyone doing the will of GOD yet not identifying themselves as a person of Faith in your posted verses. I am unsure where you saw this??
In your verses above, Jesus is teaching his apostles. They more than identify as people of faith but are known as much more- Teachers, Miracle healers, Missionaries, one Baptized, etc..really important people. Not people of faith who do not identify as such. And the verses are referring to other people of faith who might be considered the least among people of faith, those who might be naked, hungry, thirsty. Teaching the Apostles that adhering to the basic needs of their eternal family, their brothers basic needs doesn't make anyone a "Christian" (later term) or a Disciple of Christ or Saved. Whatever term you prefer Jesus ends it with "Whatever you [Apostles aka People of Faith] you did for the least of these brothers [People of Faith] of mine, you did for me You cannot be Jesus Brothers, Mothers, sisters without being a person of Faith. "it is those who do the will of My Father in Heaven. Those are my brothers and mothers" Matthew 12:48-50 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...hew%2012:48-50
Again Jesus is speaking to people of faith about taking care of the physical and spiritual needs of other people of faith. So all of these people self identify as such.
And the point of the passage is.....that people who do this do not automatically enter the kingdom of God.
Why not? Because FAITH must be involved. Faith+ Works. Because even the demons (fallen angels) have faith in God. They believe in his deity.
Matthew 7:21-22
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many [a]miracles?
James 2:14-17
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Why do you feel you need some sort of "authority" for your spiritual self?
Honest question. Think it through and see if you can give me a real answer without quotations, one from your own mind.
I don't know if you were here during some discussion but I admitted I'd make decisions upon how I feel at the moment if I were my own God
That's how humans are, lets face it. Some are better than others. But someone went off on me bigtime as being this rotten individual because i don't trust myself to be my own GOD.
We are here somehow. The world got here somehow. Supernaturally. The truth of how this occurred, and what the future IS, is something I'd like to know.
I want to know where people are drawing their source of truth from. because if it is themselves, they are their own god, then whatever they say will trump you in all situations. Unless they truly are MY GOD.
You posted verses from the bible, I assume because you believe them to be truth.
I am no different. I don't want to believe in myths and fables but the truth.
Good post. Also brings to mind the Good Samaritan story.
Them as talks holy ain't worth spit compared to one who does holy.
You could pass for a rascally Episcopalian with that kind o' thinking, TroutDude.
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