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Old 01-25-2019, 10:46 AM
Status: "Freedom - Diversity - Unity" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Better left unsaid
4,353 posts, read 1,701,990 times
Reputation: 6159

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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
No one...at least not anymore...in this country...forces anyone to "have" religion. But religion sure gets into the guilt trip.
Guilt is also regulated at the personal level. People allow themselves to feel guilty. It goes back to personal control.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,970 posts, read 9,428,119 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Guilt is also regulated at the personal level. People allow themselves to feel guilty. It goes back to personal control.
That may be true, but that does not mean that christian bullies don't do mind trips on people.
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Old 01-25-2019, 10:56 AM
Status: "Freedom - Diversity - Unity" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Better left unsaid
4,353 posts, read 1,701,990 times
Reputation: 6159
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
That may be true, but that does not mean that christian bullies don't do mind trips on people.
There will always be people of all types attempting mental games and malice. So therefore, a constant requirement for us to counter it with personal control.
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:09 AM
Status: "Being." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
24,396 posts, read 12,607,434 times
Reputation: 11225
My biggest gripe with religion is that it often employs and empowers bullies, sociopaths, and perverts.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
19,970 posts, read 9,428,119 times
Reputation: 19115
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
That may be true, but that does not mean that christian bullies don't do mind trips on people.
Ah, found it...

And here is a perfect example of that from a christian who participates in our forum: "No, I'm talking about the fact that atheists lead all belief groups in suicides per capita. I think it's because we all have gods, and their 'gods' are alcohol, drugs, and self-gratification, all of which lead to or are signs of depression. Not happiness." That's the type of bullying language -- from "Cheesemont" -- that I'm talking about.
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Old 01-25-2019, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
10,494 posts, read 4,429,793 times
Reputation: 6721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
My gripes have to do with religion, not people and politicians.

1. They keep presenting that there is separation between you and the Supreme Being
2. There teachings stifle or stunt or slow the advancement of the soul, us.
3. Many teach to be fearful of this Infinite Being
4. Many have perverted the original experience of the original 'founder' of the religion
5. The original Masters..Buddha, Jesus, Bahá'u'lláh and others...did not intend to create a religion, per se.
6. Rituals, ceremonies, liturgies, attending services have replaced being alone and still in silence to exp this
Divine One directly.
7. Lies have been told regarding benefits for giving money to the Church.
8. Some teach that there is a 'go-between' for each one of us to exp our Father
9. Some teach that there is a hell if you do not follow or even believe 'whatever'
10. Whole congregations are encouraged to ostracize members
11. Some teach to kill those that do not believe as they do, again the "them and us" false teaching.
12. Some do not teach or encourage there people to speak in tongues or to practice healings, then kick
out those that do believe in those


I could go on ...these are just off the top...
This is awesome! Well stated Miss Hepburn!
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Old 01-25-2019, 01:08 PM
 
10,462 posts, read 10,789,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
I am a Hindu though a non believer/practiser, and agnostic in my daily existence. My problem with religion- and this adresses every religion, in all of human civilization, is that it expects only the middle class to be moralistic.

I am reading biographies on American Presidents- Reagan, Kennedy and from the older days of Lincoln and Jefferson and what I have found is that all the qualities of amorality- backstabbing, greed, lust, anger- pretty much the "dark side" is what makes these individuals get to where they did-either directly(themselves) or indirectly(their administration and cabinet members). This rule I feel applies to all leaders in all of human civilization. The great Napoleon Bonaparte said: "In Italy I realized I was a superior being and conceived the ambition of performing great things, which hitherto had filled my thoughts only as a fantastic dream". His biographer states: He was an artist, a poet of action, for whom France, Europe and a mankind were but instruments. He had charisma, he could move men to obedience, to loyalty and to heroic acts. He was also quite arrogant -- he manipulated people at will. "A man like me," he once said, "troubles himself little about the lives of a million men."

To get on top is a game and power struggle. Darwin's "survival of the fittest" applies to the wild but also to this society.

Now onto wealth: All the richest men in all of time have greed and avarice as traits embedded in them. Rockfeller's biography says “his good side was every bit as good as his bad side was bad.” I study men in my nation- the rich billionaires, and they all have, at best a good(moral)/bad (amoral) personality, or they are all out on the dark side in personal characteristics, principles and ethos. Sure they were determined and you could even use the term "genius" for their foresight that they possesed and no one around them did, and indeed many of these rich wealthy men, especially in western society have given back to society. But the more I read on their path to success- their early days and the more I see strong convictions but amoral ethics.

So basically the religious folks(middle class) are "serving" the very people they despise(bankers, narcissistic movie stars and the people of the government- especially the people of the govenrment, who they elect every few years hoping for things to get better). I read a Rush Limbaughand and Thomas Sowell discussion a few months ago where one of them said that things always seemed bad in every era in America such as the 30s or 40s and yet people keep electing the same amoral people knowingly. This is true for most democracies. A proud christian patriot probably knows that his Government is scam and the leaders are all pretty much scamsters. In fact when I talk to older people I have heard so many of them say never trust the politicians, or they're all paid for.

My opinion is also this: One has to be of this nature if they have to get into politics or any competition of any sort. It happened in Ancient Rome and it happens today. At the top with money and power involved how many truly great individuals with "ethos and principles"- traits that most religions obsesses over such as honesty, or justice have ever come to be? Dig in and even Bill Gates has his offshoring profits through a tiny Puerto Rico office that alone saved Microsoft $4m a day in taxes(got it off a site).

In my office experiences I have observed narcissists and even psychopaths get the top posts. I have observed the hypocrisy in every system. Put it simply: if a person wishes to be something in life he/she must possess some amoral traits. And yet Christianity or Hinduism or Islam or any religion orders a man to be pious.

I hope you get my perspective. Everyone asks religious people to prove God, show some evidence and the debates rage on. I don't care about any of that. As an agnostic I feel that there can be a higher supreme power just as likely as we are atoms and space particles created by accident. I don't question that aspect of faith. But it is the notion that the religious people must somehow be virtous and follow the principles and ethos, and yet the people they vote for or the people who are successful(wealth) never follow those and yet none of the billions of religious thinking people question this. They just trudge along. The poor and homeless are too busy looking for shelter or food to think about faith or ethos and the wealthy and the powerful use everyone around them, they network and form alliances. It is the middle class- the religious, devout hardworking man of principle who is used and forgotten- and these people are followers of God.
My biggest gripe with religious people--I am speaking of the fundamentalists now--is that they try to foist their bigoted beliefs on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE on the pretext they are trying to save people from going to hell and burning for eternity. Really what they are trying to do is just maintain the status quo of a religion sinking like a stone in the ocean of public opinion/discontent with Christianity. What irks me even more particularly is that they have absolutely no right to feel their religion is the right religion. The truth is Christianity is a house of cards built on a windy beach. There is absolutely no historic foundation for Christianity to rest on in the 1st century. All they have are Jewish gnostics breaking away from the traditional Abrahamic religion and trying to start their own version of it.

Jerusalem fell in 70 CE and the temple along with it which destroyed the animal sacrifice system. Since they couldn't sacrifice animals anymore they had to go with a sacrifice that would be a one-time thing and last forever. This belief eventually evolved into the Jesus avatar being a one-time sacrifice for all mankind for the forgiveness of sins which in turn evolved into classic Christianity in the 2nd-3rd centuries when Constantine took the throne in 425 CE.
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Old 01-25-2019, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
13,549 posts, read 11,224,523 times
Reputation: 15370
Quote:
Originally Posted by rishi85 View Post
All these years I trusted others.
Yeah. Considring what others say is smart...but trust?
NEVER trust others!
Not even ME!

That should be in a tee shirt.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Hey, Rishi..I see you are not new, I thought you were....weren't we gonna meet up one time yrs ago?
You were coming to CO, USA.
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Old 01-25-2019, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
13,549 posts, read 11,224,523 times
Reputation: 15370
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Instead of singling out religion, look at the much larger roots of the problem.
Well, haven't YOU wetted our curiosity! Please go on.
I could say a lot myself on the subject! The floor is yours...
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Old 01-25-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Southwestern, USA
13,549 posts, read 11,224,523 times
Reputation: 15370
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
...when Constantine took the throne in 425 CE.
That was a typoo ...he ruled 306-337 Christian Era.

And don't get me started on the blood sacrifices thing! Grrr.
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