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Race relations is another thing now that you mention that. Gospel music was a huge influence on rock and roll music. You know the influence that kind of music had on race relations and civil rights.
Saying that gospel music had an influence on rock and roll, which in turn had an influence on civil rights, is incredibly weak. Many things had an influence on rock, and I would not consider rock to be a primary influence on civil rights.
But, if you want to go that route, I think that we can thank gospel music for the sexual revolution.
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It's almost as if being an atheist means that a person has no interest in these things. Zero. That's what it appears like to many, and I would have no challenge to that, and no reason to ever defend atheism again given that point of view.
Ozzy, I doubt that you would defend atheism against anything.
Race relations is another thing now that you mention that. Gospel music was a huge influence on rock and roll music. You know the influence that kind of music had on race relations and civil rights.
It's almost as if being an atheist means that a person has no interest in these things. Zero. That's what it appears like to many, and I would have no challenge to that, and no reason to ever defend atheism again given that point of view.
Let me skip the line you are taking and let me rather say that I am well aware that Bruckner was a devout Catholic all his life and the 1610 vespers are religious throughout. Holst's Hymn of Jesus is of course 'religious' (so are his Hymns from the Rig Veda). Stravinsky's 'symphony of Psalms is Religious. Berlioz' Requiem is Religious. So is Bach's Matthew passion.
You don't have to use Gospel music to sell me the point about how inspirational religion is. Despite what our recent BodySnatcher Corporate Cowboy said, 'Anti Theism' is not trying to eradicate it, but keep it to the individual or group - and if it inspires an individual or group to great Art or even great Rock -that's fine. Just as it's fine that Religion inspired Balinese dance, Bharata Natyam or the Ramakien.
None of that is going to do a single, solitary, thing to sell me religion as worthwhile, good for society or anything but a bad influence on politics, education or science. Or anything but untrue - in each and every case.
I hardly need address your attempt to argue that Religion inspires people to stand against those they see as the enemy, even to martyrdom. We have a world full of Martyrs right now, taking as many Unbelievers with them as they can.
I seem to recall that I mentioned before, if people were able to see ills coming and prevent them rather than martyr themselves opposing it when it's too late, that would be better.
Saying that gospel music had an influence on rock and roll, which in turn had an influence on civil rights, is incredibly weak. Many things had an influence on rock, and I would not consider rock to be a primary influence on civil rights.
But, if you want to go that route, I think that we can thank gospel music for the sexual revolution.
Ozzy, I doubt that you would defend atheism against anything.
"First they came for the atheists. And i did not speak out, because I was not an atheist."
"Then they came for the Liberals, and I did not speak out, because I was not a Liberal."
"Then they came for the religious unorthodox. And there was nobody left to speak for me."
Ozzy (and the others) need to realize that atheists, agnostics, irreligious theists and anyone who dissents from the religious orthodoxy of the Church of America (if they should succeed in making that aim of replacing a Constitution -based government with a religious - and fundamentalist religious -one) should all be working together to preserve a society where no one religion Rules. But they prefer to fight atheists all the time because they believe in a god and we don't.
'Irreligion' (the "Nones") is the key. Even Theists can be 'irreligious' - No (organised) Religion. We are not 'anti' those, or even individual religions. We really all ought to be on the same side. We all really want the same things - freedom to believe what you like. or not.
I just don't know why they spend so much time discussing "literal" events in the Bible. The fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was it a Golden Delicious or a Granny Smith? Who cares? Unless it's just done for amusement, which I could actually understand.
Who cares?
There are an awfully lot of christians out there that do argue for the bible being totally factual. So why don't you go argue with them instead of blaming atheists for what large groups of christians are saying.
One out of every four Americans believe the bible is the literal word of God.
A roughly equal number think the bible is made of of secular stories and history.
Just under half think Bible is the inspired word of God.
Let me skip the line you are taking and let me rather say that I am well aware that Bruckner was a devout Catholic all his life and the 1610 vespers are religious throughout. Holst's Hymn of Jesus is of course 'religious' (so are his Hymns from the Rig Veda). Stravinsky's 'symphony of Psalms is Religious. Berlioz' Requiem is Religious. So is Bach's Matthew passion.
You don't have to use Gospel music to sell me the point about how inspirational religion is. Despite what our recent BodySnatcher Corporate Cowboy said, 'Anti Theism' is not trying to eradicate it, but keep it to the individual or group - and if it inspires an individual or group to great Art or even great Rock -that's fine. Just as it's fine that Religion inspired Balinese dance, Bharata Natyam or the Ramakien.
None of that is going to do a single, solitary, thing to sell me religion as worthwhile, good for society or anything but a bad influence on politics, education or science. Or anything but untrue - in each and every case.
I hardly need address your attempt to argue that Religion inspires people to stand against those they see as the enemy, even to martyrdom. We have a world full of Martyrs right now, taking as many Unbelievers with them as they can.
I seem to recall that I mentioned before, if people were able to see ills coming and prevent them rather than martyr themselves opposing it when it's too late, that would be better.
Race relations is another thing now that you mention that. Gospel music was a huge influence on rock and roll music. You know the influence that kind of music had on race relations and civil rights.
It's almost as if being an atheist means that a person has no interest in these things. Zero. That's what it appears like to many, and I would have no challenge to that, and no reason to ever defend atheism again given that point of view.
As Transponder pointed out, I doubt many Christians would defend atheism regardless of what we atheists said or did. I've even encountered Christians who said they would defend Muslim extremism before they defended atheism because at least the Muslims believe in a god.
Which calls into question the morality of these people - that they would defend terrorism and the deaths of thousands of innocents before they would defend the word of an atheist - even when the atheist is completel correct.
Some years ago I remember arguing with a Christian from Texas regarding a prominent pastor who kept telling his very large congregation that homosexuals ought to be rounded up and thrown into what amounted to concentration camps.
I guess because an atheist brought this issue to light, Christians couldn't bring themselves to stand united with us. They must *always* have the opposite opinion of atheists no matter what the issue is or how heinous the opposing opinion happens to be.
I know I've jumped on quite a few Christians who took a totally immoral stance just so they could be at odds with an atheist - which makes no sense to me. It suggests to me that they haven't a care what their own moral code is and that they can't stand shoulder to shoulder with an atheist about anything. Better to defend slavery, the Holocaust, genocide, infanticide, murdering children, oppression, discrimination, persecution, and unjust imprisonment than to stoop so low as to be seen on the same side as an atheist.
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It isn't even his personal opinion - it's his personal vendetta against 'Liberl' atheists.
