Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Even if the entire earth was of level elevation, as was theorized by a previous poster, there would still be geologic evidence of a worldwide flood. evidence left in strata at places like the Grand Canyon.The flood story, just like the Creation story, are stories brought back to places like Judea by Jewish priests from thier years in captivity in other places like Babylon. These stories have been told, adapted to suit various cultures and were used to explain human existance to peoples who had no education and easily bought into irrational explanations.
The bible does not mention alot of things directly that is why we have an area of study called Theology.
Theology is where we derive ideas about the nature of God etc. from the text. For example the Trinity.
What you are doing is eisegesis. The study about the nature of God is a far cry from claiming from scripture that mountains were not as high. I asked why would you mention that mountains were lower in the past since it wasn't mentioned in the Bible, since you had no reason to mention that a concave earth is not mentioned in scripture as well. You are just making up stuff.
Quote:
Unfortunately the Trinity is not mentioned in the bible but is deduced from scripture. There are other parts of God mentioned in the bible but we have not added to the theology. For example one area of study might be the Seven Spirits of God that reside before the throne of God. What are they? Angels or part of the Holy Spirit? So it is through a study of the scriptures that one can determine what was being refered to.
That's a nice red herring you got on your line. But back to what you are suggesting, mountains were not as high, from scripture, which is pure fabrication.
Quote:
The bible does however say alot of things that is why a study of scripture is possible. Since the bible is truth the things mentioned in the bible can be studied closely to see the underlying truth. This can include where oil might be found on the modern earth.
How so? I have asked this before. If am about to sink a well, what is in scripture that can tell me if this location is correct, or that I should move over to the next lease?
Because you need to keep throwing out reasons that sound plausible to you but make no sense
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
I have only been using the bible a the source for my arguement. Since the flood history is derived from the bible they it only serves reason to use this source.
No, youve been using your own interpretation of what it says and mostly ignoring the rebutals from me and others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
The arguement that I have made is that the earth had smaller mountains in the past.
No, you argued that back then, there were no such thing as mountains or even hills based on a misinterpretation of a bible passage. 6.75 meters is nothing. Some trees from the genus Sequoia grow to be over 100 meters tall and. Its even more ridiculous to think that god went all epic in the language she used to described how she was going to kill every breathing thing but then not using enough water to fill up the earth enough to fully submerge my humble house.
Quote:
They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
The heights you have the gal to suggest aren't high enough to even be considered hills. The bible is against you on these claims
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
This would throw out the calculations for all those planet size volumes of water that are needed to cover modern mountains.
no it doesn't. I'm more than happy to apply my maths to whatever claims you might throw at me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
The next arguement I gave was that all of the water for the flood is found in the oceans. So we don't need to wonder where all of the water went to.
Nope this argument makes no sense. Notice how all the water in the world do not cover up the entire earth. If i remove those couple of kilometers of water what i get are holes that would have been filled up before covering the earth. Are you telling me now that there were no(read a few inches of) seas before Noah?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
I don't care if any other Christian or Creationist follows my line of thinking.
Don't you at least wonder why they don't? You have no evidence to back up your claims, they go against quite a few known mechanisms that describe the way the world works and they are not even supported by the scripture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
This is the volume of earth's water: Volume of Earth's Water. There is more than enough water there.
The bible does not say that the oceans remained full.
Why sure, let me do the maths when we add whatever fraction of those 1,386,000,000,000,000,000,000 liters of water to my calculatio....wait, if they weren't there before then that means im gonna have to take the same value away. Surprise surprise i still need a moon load of water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
So
This is where the water came from and where it went. Some is contained in the polar ice caps.
Which if you did Chemistry, you'd know that ice is less dense than water and thus has a larger volume than H2O
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikk
Also the ark was a lot larger than most people think. It is not the tiny little boat seen on nursery walls, but a large boat comparable to modern freight liners.
As ive stated before, the ark was exactly 135 meters in lenght, 23 in width and 14 meters in height. A search in wiki has lead me to find its comparable to the second from the bottom type of bulk container. You see they are classified by size and the carrying capacity that their strong steel structure is able to withstand.
The arguement that I have made is that the earth had smaller mountains in the past. This would throw out the calculations for all those planet size volumes of water that are needed to cover modern mountains. The next arguement I gave was that all of the water for the flood is found in the oceans. So we don't need to wonder where all of the water went to.
I don't care if any other Christian or Creationist follows my line of thinking.
You've said that you use the Bible as your basic source of information and I posted the passage referring to high mountains so I guess you're just ignoring that part of the Bible so you can fabricate some explanation for all of the water. The problem now is that even with this completely unsubstantiated idea you have is that if there wasn't a single mountain on the earth today there still wouldn't be enough water in the oceans to flood all of the continents plus you've contradicted your statement that you base your beliefs on exactly what the Bible says because the words "high mountains" are very easy to understand.
300 feet, if all the water was on was freed up thats how much deeper it would be. I wonder what the rest of the world must have done for god to have gone through so much trouble to be so unnesassarly cruel
I don't understand all this ...if you believe that the bible is the word of God you will accept this by faith. If you do not believe that the bible is the word of God...what differance does it make what it says ?
As me and my household..we acccept this by faith !
I don't understand all this ...if you believe that the bible is the word of God you will accept this by faith. If you do not believe that the bible is the word of God...what differance does it make what it says ?
As me and my household..we acccept this by faith !
If that is what you believe the Word of God says, then that is a perfectly acceptable position, and you are certainly not alone in that view. However, to go beyond that and to say that the geology of the Earth actually shows that a Global Flood occurred, is not.
I don't understand all this ...if you believe that the bible is the word of God you will accept this by faith. If you do not believe that the bible is the word of God...what differance does it make what it says ?
As me and my household..we acccept this by faith !
While I can understand your position, I don't think I could just accept something in which there is literally no evidence for, or for that matter, that the evidence contradicts, by faith.
And out of curiosity, what if one of your family members told you they did not believe it? Just curious.
Nikk... I commend you. You keep at it like you'll eventually change their minds. They won't. They'll never see things from our point of view (YEC) no matter what. It's not a question of evidence. I've said before and I'll say it again, we have the same evidence. It's the interpretation of that evidence that differs. It's not a matter of faith. Their positions take just as much faith as ours does. It's a matter of will.
Our will is conformed to God. Our eyes, hearts and minds have been opened by Him. We understand and we know what the truth is. Their eyes and hearts and minds are closed and will remain closed because of their will. If they admit that any tiny part of what we say is true, then they'd have to begin to admit there is a God who owns them and can tell them how to live. They'll never let that happen because it's a matter of their will.
I could sit here and refute all their excuses not to believe, but I've already done that before. I've explained the YEC position before. I'm done talking. They don't even acknowledge what's been said to them. They keep bringing up the same tired arguments that have been explained and refuted time and again. All I can do is present the information for others to read. If they accept it or not is no longer my concern. They will have to answer one day and pay the price God demands of everyone. The only difference is my debt has been paid in full, covered by Jesus. How will they pay?
Nikk... I commend you. You keep at it like you'll eventually change their minds. They won't. They'll never see things from our point of view (YEC) no matter what. It's not a question of evidence. I've said before and I'll say it again, we have the same evidence. It's the interpretation of that evidence that differs. It's not a matter of faith. Their positions take just as much faith as ours does. It's a matter of will.
Our will is conformed to God. Our eyes, hearts and minds have been opened by Him. We understand and we know what the truth is. Their eyes and hearts and minds are closed and will remain closed because of their will. If they admit that any tiny part of what we say is true, then they'd have to begin to admit there is a God who owns them and can tell them how to live. They'll never let that happen because it's a matter of their will.
I could sit here and refute all their excuses not to believe, but I've already done that before. I've explained the YEC position before. I'm done talking. They don't even acknowledge what's been said to them. They keep bringing up the same tired arguments that have been explained and refuted time and again. All I can do is present the information for others to read. If they accept it or not is no longer my concern. They will have to answer one day and pay the price God demands of everyone. The only difference is my debt has been paid in full, covered by Jesus. How will they pay?
I believe we need to be clear in such discussions that as Christians, we believe in the possibility of God doing miracles, which are beyond any human explanation. The point here, though, is truthfulness. It is disingenuous to say "science proves" Young-Earth Creation, when in the end it's not science that proves it, but rather some highly contrived and speculative miraculous events that are neither witnessed in the scriptural record nor by any observable evidence. If you want to believe that "God did it" in a certain way, and ignore the scientific evidence, then at least be honest and admit this is a purely theological conclusion. I don't believe God is going to condemn a person who is ignorant of the scientific facts and simply chooses to believe a theological assertion of God as Creator. However, lying about what science actually "proves" is not something a Christian should do. If one is going to claim a scientifically verifiable explanation (or even invoke an unproved hypothesis, ala Nikk), then there needs to be a forthright acknowledgement of the scientific evidence or lack thereof.
Last edited by PanTerra; 04-24-2008 at 06:13 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
