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Why would it matter whether the man was a Christian or not?
I mean, Why would it matter to Christians whether dude was a Christian or not?
If there is a debate about slavery in the bible, it's a debate, and it doesnt matter what the person is who debates. Whether Atheist or Christian, something is true or it aint.
I can answer that question...it's easy.
If "you" don't like the debate, debate the debate, rather than the substance.
It doesn't matter to them if the largest christian denomination in the American South endorsed slavery; they'll say the debate is about a high school they never heard of before and will never hear of again.
It doesn't matter to them that the bible appears to endorse slavery, or that Jesus didn't condemn slavery; they'll say that's not the issue at hand.
Debate the debate, not the substance. That's their tool.
This has been my understanding. I did not know about African Americans owning slaves though.
African slaves were bought by slave traders from Africans. Raiders did not go to Africa and abduct people. I think that in Egyptian and Roman times there were raiding parties. It was possible to send armies south to abduct people. The defeated in battle were often the victims of slavery I believe.
Yes, some did. I saw an item in a history talk that some of the wealthier black families who went to Liberia took their slave -owning ideas with them. Got them into a bit of trouble.
Quote:
=Mink57;60725318]O.k. ...
O.k. ...
Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote. I wrote that slavery wasn't SOLELY based on racism. The fact that slavery was often applied to people within the same race proves that as a fact.
[QUOTEIn any case this topic is not about slavery and it is about calling out Christians for defending slavery.
Whether the OP was written to shame "Christians is debatable.
Whether what the OP wrote/posted was "slander" is inaccurate. Slander applies to what's spoken. Libel applies to what's written.
There is no evidence that the man in the video is a Christian.
There is also no evidence that the man in the video is a racist.
The video in its entirety is about 1.5 hours. I posted a link to the whole video because you had asked, "What is the context? Where does this take place?" Plus, I and several others had also asked about context.
After reviewing the video and seeing the guy's 90 second speech, I walked away thinking, "So....is he FOR or AGAINST the name change?" He basically stood there and "corrected" a few others, not revealing his stance either way. Like, what was his point?
Once again, there's no evidence that the man in the video is Christian, NOR is there any evidence that he's a racist.
I would bet that he is speaking as an apologist for the South and excuser of slavery. I could be wrong. However the point is that, as a Christian or an atheist (whichever it is) he is saying that Christians have no business to claim that Christianity is anti slavery, because the Bible (NT as well) endorses it.
I won't deny that those involved in abolition were generally Christian. Practically everyone was, back then. However I would argue that the rationale for abolition was humanist and rational 'We are all humans' and only Slavery could use the Bible as a real basis for support.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 04-01-2021 at 03:10 PM..
If "you" don't like the debate, debate the debate, rather than the substance.
It doesn't matter to them if the largest christian denomination in the American South endorsed slavery; they'll say the debate is about a high school they never heard of before and will never hear of again.
It doesn't matter to them that the bible appears to endorse slavery, or that Jesus didn't condemn slavery; they'll say that's not the issue at hand.
Debate the debate, not the substance. That's their tool.
But there is an easy antidote to that!
Sure as hell sounds familiar to me, just act like it ain't there written in the bible, seems to work though.
Peter Rickman's Pensacola Bible Institute taught scripture based white supremacists ,(slavery)
I can't speak to what this "Bible Institute" teaches, but I did google his name, and found his church. He's a KJV-only wingnut. He's about as representative of Christianity is as the Pope is Baptist.
I SOUNDLY rebuke and condemn his idiotic teachings.
I am disgusted to hear this, disgusted that these attitudes not only are thought, but are spoken. Have we not gone beyond that?
This post is a good illustration of how poorly some understand things.
So poorly...it would indicate rank bias instead of a deficient analysis...because so few would lack the ability to figure things out to such a degree.
The man was obviously criticizing literal Bible translation and critique...not endorsing it. But, then...you knew that.
I can't speak to what this "Bible Institute" teaches, but I did google his name, and found his church. He's a KJV-only wingnut. He's about as representative of Christianity is as the Pope is Baptist.
I SOUNDLY rebuke and condemn his idiotic teachings.
So, another case where the numbers you folks brag about may not be very accurate?
The reason is because this attitude is still wide spread, and it's harmful.
No one can, nor should, defend this type of talk. No one.
It matters that it be called out, whenever it occurs, rather than ignoring it.
I have to agree with your point. My opinion is that our nation, society, communities, neighborhoods ....on and on have become so divided that the current hot ticket is division. Some people obviously love to spread controversy, hatred, division.
And then people scratch their heads, wonder why crime and such is so high, and then point the finger at someone else....blame others.
Revisionism is rampant in history, and has been since the 90s in some measurable, provable form, and likely way before that.
Biblican revisionism is alive and well too. There are many apologists and modern armchair scholar who want to sugar coat what the Bible says and does not say. The Bible was written by humans in a time when slavery was the norm. If you do not believe me, then pick up some socio-cultural journals which address the anthropological studies of ancient cultures, including the dominant cultures of the Biblical times, Romans, Egyptians and the Greeks and understand that various forms of slavery existed and were a way of life.
At no point, in the recorded Biblical teachings of Jesus, or his followers, is there a ban or even discourage slavery. One story even has Paul, a self professed early apostle, encouraging a slave to return to his master, and the master to accept the slave as a fellow Christian. While we do not know the status of that slave (ie captured prize, purchased, indentured servitude etc) we see clearly that Paul does not go to the master and tell him NOT to own a slave.
The Bible does not forbid slavery. Period. It does tell that a person may punish a slave by beating him almost to death, so long as the slave does not die, and this may be as punishment. So not only does the Bible allow slavery, it encourages human rights violations.
So now again, many apologists, will try to sugar coat this by saying "Oh OH OH Well Slavery did not mean the same thing then that it does now" Well, yes it does, and in many different forms. Again, research OTUSIDE of the Bible (if you are allowed by your church) and read the studies of the cultures around the area of Judea, again Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, and understand that slavery was simply an accepted part of life at the times.
Now again, I am against slavery (then again, you all know my opinion of the bible too) and I believe that slavery is one of the most vile and cruel things man can do to his fellow man. And trying to defend it by saying "Oh well the Bible says..." gets nowhere with me.
In the ends, Slavery is a cruel and evil institution and I hope to live long enough to see an end to it.
I have to agree with your point. My opinion is that our nation, society, communities, neighborhoods ....on and on have become so divided that the current hot ticket is division. Some people obviously love to spread controversy, hatred, division.
And then people scratch their heads, wonder why crime and such is so high, and then point the finger at someone else....blame others.
Revisionism is rampant in history, and has been since the 90s in some measurable, provable form, and likely way before that.
Biblican revisionism is alive and well too. There are many apologists and modern armchair scholar who want to sugar coat what the Bible says and does not say. The Bible was written by humans in a time when slavery was the norm. If you do not believe me, then pick up some socio-cultural journals which address the anthropological studies of ancient cultures, including the dominant cultures of the Biblical times, Romans, Egyptians and the Greeks and understand that various forms of slavery existed and were a way of life.
At no point, in the recorded Biblical teachings of Jesus, or his followers, is there a ban or even discourage slavery. One story even has Paul, a self professed early apostle, encouraging a slave to return to his master, and the master to accept the slave as a fellow Christian. While we do not know the status of that slave (ie captured prize, purchased, indentured servitude etc) we see clearly that Paul does not go to the master and tell him NOT to own a slave.
The Bible does not forbid slavery. Period. It does tell that a person may punish a slave by beating him almost to death, so long as the slave does not die, and this may be as punishment. So not only does the Bible allow slavery, it encourages human rights violations.
So now again, many apologists, will try to sugar coat this by saying "Oh OH OH Well Slavery did not mean the same thing then that it does now" Well, yes it does, and in many different forms. Again, research OTUSIDE of the Bible (if you are allowed by your church) and read the studies of the cultures around the area of Judea, again Romans, Egyptians, Greeks, and understand that slavery was simply an accepted part of life at the times.
Now again, I am against slavery (then again, you all know my opinion of the bible too) and I believe that slavery is one of the most vile and cruel things man can do to his fellow man. And trying to defend it by saying "Oh well the Bible says..." gets nowhere with me.
In the ends, Slavery is a cruel and evil institution and I hope to live long enough to see an end to it.
Excellent post. And another aspect of this that bothers me is that christians (I think intentionally) confuse many issues with the argument that the bible is an historical record of the era, while also saying that you can't take it literally. Intentional obfuscation.
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