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You can't compare the Qu'ran with the Torah and the Bible. According to Islamic belief the Qu'ran was more or less written by God - which Christian and Jews might find a little ridiculous.
ridiculous !!!
let me tell you then that if you read your bible may be you can understand what is the muslims beliefs about quran
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth;
and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." Deut.18:18.
What does it mean when it is said 'I will put my words in your mouth'?
"If I were to teach you a language like Arabic about which you have no knowledge, and if I asked you to read or repeat after me what I utter , it means that i put my words in your mouth , isn't it right ?
History tells us that Muhummed (pbuh) was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. It was the 27th night of the Muslim month of Ramadaan. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue:'IQRA' which means READ! or PROCLAIM! or RECITE! Muhummed w as terrified and in his bewilderment replied that he was not NOT LEARNED! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues.
Now Muhummed, grasps, that what was required of him was to repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:
READ! IN THE NAME OF THE LORD AND CHERISHER, WHO CREATED-
CREATED MAN, FROM A (MERE) CLOT OF CONGEALED BLOOD:
READ! AND THY LORD IS MOST BOUNTIFUL,-
HE WHO TAUGHT (THE USE OF) THE PEN,
TAUGHT MAN THAT WHICH HE KNEW NOT".
(Holy Qur'an 96:1-5) These are the first five verses which were revealed to Muhummed which now occupy the beginning of the 96th chapter of the Holy Qur'an.
Quote:
The Torah and the Bible were written by human beings but, as we say, "breathed by God". At a local Bible class we had a pretty interesting comparison: Jesus is for Christianity what the Qu'ran is for Islam.
are they told you in class that muslims worships the Quran ?
That the Jews and the Christians have their own prophets.
What all 3 have in common is the Old Testament.
Quote:
quran not based on torah and bible , but the origianl torah and the original Gospele are from God also , and contain the same massage of islam
This is what I meant.
The Jews had God's story the 1st, then came the Christians and the Islam came last.
Originally Posted by brittZ
Quote:
Muhammad himself told his followers, "Who relinqueshes his faith, kill him. I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they testify there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."
A Jew and a Christian believe as much in God as a Muslim.
The problem is that the Jews and Christians do not acknowledge Muhammad as the Arab's prophet. Then again the Christians have persecuted the Jews and the Islam several times, simply because they do not accept Jesus as God.
Muhammad himself told his followers, "Who relinqueshes his faith, kill him. I have been ordered by Allah to fight with people till they testify there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger."
People say that Islam is about peace and tolerance but a tree is known by its fruits. It was Ayatollah Khomeini who declared: "The purest joy in Islam is to kill and be killed for Allah." 1400 years of violence, attrition, murder, bloodshed, and outright hatred for Jews and Christians would tend to support this idea. You say that fundamentalists are the one's responsible for the violence and terrorist activity. Fundamentalism is defined as a usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles by the American Heritage Dictionary. Based on the evidence these fundamentalists are by definition doing exactly as they should according to the Quran and are simply devoute followers of the examples set forth in the Quran and by Muhammad.
The Muslim religion was founded by a man who based his philosophy around the central theme of "convert or die." He was a polygamous pediphile (by modern standards) who, after the death of his first wife of 25 years married a child of no more than 5 or 6 years old named Aisha and had a total of about 12 wives depending on the source. He hated Jews and Christians and commanded all faithful Muslims to ""Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every strategem." Surah 9:5 He cursed Christians and Jews alike saying, "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah and the Christians call Christ the Son of Allah . . . Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded from the truth." Surah 9:30
Lets take a look a further look at the peaceful nature of Muhammad and the foundations of the Muslim religion.
January 623 A.D. - Muhammad led an attack on 4 merchants attempting to sell raisins and honey. He killed the 4 merchants and took 1/5 of the loot. This took place during a month which was delcared sacred and off limits for war or fighting by Muhammad.
How did he justify this murder? He wrote a "revelation"
Surah 2:216
"Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."
Surah 2:217
"They question you (O Mohammed) with regard to warfare in the sacred month. Say: Warfare therein is a great transgression but to turn men from the way of Allah and to disbelive in Him and the inviolable place of worship and to expel its people thence is a greater transgression, for persecution is worse than killing"
March 623 A.D. - Muhammad's gang killed 200 people and took 70 prisoners while Muhammad hid in a mud hut and threw rocks at people. Afterwards, the gang beheaded an outspoken opponent of Muhammad and threw the severed head at the feet of Muhammad who yelled out, "Rejoice! Here lies the head of the enemy of Allah! Praise Allah, for there is no one but He!"
How did he justify this? Another "revelation"
Surah 8:65
"O Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you 20 steadfast,they will overcome 200 and if there be of you a 100, they shall overcome a 1000, because the disbelievers are a folk without intelligence"
Surah 8:67-68
"It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."
March - April 623 A.D. - Muhammad assisnated Abu 'Afak and Asma bint Marwan who were two of the most famous poets of Medina and openly spoke againts Muhammad.
After the death of Asma bint Marwan, Muhammad told the assasins, "You have done a service to Allah and his Messenger, her life was not worth even two goats!"
April 623 A.D. - Muhammad attempted to slaughter the Jewish villiage of Banu Qaynuqa - a settlement of tradesmen and goldsmiths. Abdallah Ibn Ubayy stood up to Muhammad so instead of killing the villagers, Muhammad took the captive and forced the women to become sex-slaves. Again, Muhammad took 1/5 of the loot of gold and women.
Surah 8:55-57
"Lo, the worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the ungrateful who will not believe."
"Those of them with whom you made a treaty and then at every opportunity they break their treaty and they keep not duty to Allah, If you come on them in the war, deal with them so as to strike fear in those who are behind them, so that they may remember."
March 625 A.D. - The battle of Uhud. Muhammad attempted to gain the favor of the Jews of Medina and as he was going to war in Mecca. It didn't work and Muhammad botched a surprise attack as he camped above the Meccan army on the slopes of Mount Uhud. Muhammad lost miserably.
Surah 3:140-1
"And if ye have recieved a blow, the disbelievers have recieved a blow the like thereof. These are the vicissitudes which We cause to follow one another for mankind, to the end that Allah may know those who believe and may choose witnesses from among you; and Allah loveth not wrong-doers. And that Allah may prove those who believe and may strike the disbelievers."
Surah 3:153
"When you climbed the hill and paid no heed, while the Messenger (Mohammed) in your rear was calling you to fight. Therefore he rewarded you grief for his grief that he might teach you, not to sorrow either for that which you missed or for that which befell you. Allah is informed of what you do."
March 625 A.D. - Muhammad Bin Maslama kills a famous Jewish poet named Kaab Ibn Al' Ashraf at the request of Muhammad.
May - June 625 A.D. - Muhammad and his army surrounded the Jewish village of Banu-N-Nadir and began destroying palm trees which provided food until the villagers surrendered and were stripped of all their posessions and forced by the sword from their village. Muhammad again took 1/5 of the loot.
The revelation that followed:
Surah 59:2-5
"He it is who hath caused those of the People of the Scripture (Jews) who disbelieved to go forth from their homes unto the first exile. You deemed not that they would go forth, while they deemed that their strongholds would protect them from Allah. But Allah reached them from a place whereof they recked not and cast terror in their hearts so that they ruined their houses with their own hands and the hands of the believers. So learn a lesson, O you who have eyes!
"And if Allah had not decreed migration for them, he verily would have punished them in this world and theirs in the hereafter is the punishment of the Fire!"
"That is because they were opposed to Allah and his Messenger ; and whoso is opposed to Allah (for him) verily Allah is stern in reprisal."
"Whatsoever palm-trees you cut down or left standing on their roots, it was by Allah's leave, in order that He might confound the Evil-Livers."
April 626 A.D. - Murder of Abu Rafi, a Jewish Elder. Several Muslims decided to honor Muhammad by killing Rafi. Afterwards, "there was a fight among them as to who had actually killed Abu Rafi. At this, the Prophet smiled beatifically and started checking their swords. Finally, it was decided that the person who owned the sword which still had traces of food in it, was the winner. Apparently Abu Rafi had just finished his dinner before falling asleep and the sword had slashed through his stomach spilling its contents. Indeed how Benevolent was the Apostle of Peace!"
December 626 A.D. - Massacre, Rape, and Plunder of Banu-L-Mustaliq. Muhammad and his army took captive 2000 camel, 500 sheep, and 500 women after killing all the men and boys in the village. Afterwards, one of Muhammad's soldiers and Muhammad had the following conversation, "We were lusting after women and chastity had become too hard for us, but we wanted to get the ransom money for our prisoners. So we wanted to use the "Azl" (Coitus Interruptus- where the man withdraws before ejaculating)...We asked the Prophet about it and he said: "You are not under any obligation to stop yourselves from doing it like that.." Later on the women and children were given for ransom to their envoys. They all went away to their country and not One wanted to stay although they had the choice."
April - May 627 A.D. - The Massacre of Banu Qurayza. Muhammad attacked this village and at the end, he forced an old Jewih man to read the sentence Muhammad had ordered against the surviving Jews - Death, rape, and slavery. All of the men were bound at the hands and feet and given one chance to convert to Islam before being beheaded and thrown into a trech around the village. Not one Jewish man converted and Muhammad beheaded 900 Jewish men in one day. the women were raped and sold into slavery.
Justification - Muhammad had another revelation:
Surah 4:24
"And all married women are forbidden unto you EXCEPT those captives whom your right hand possesses. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that you seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery..."
Surah 5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is one of them. Lo allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.
Surah 5:64
The Jews say: "Allah's hand is fettered." It is THEIR hands that are fettered and they are ACCURSED for saying so. Nay, but both his (Allah's) hands are spread in bounty. He bestoweth as he will. That which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and belief of many of them, And We have cast among them (The Jews) Enmity and Hatred till the day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah extinguishes it!
February 628 A.D. - Massacre of Jewish tribesmen from Banu Sa'd Tribe, Thirty Jews from Khaybar
January - February 628 A.D. - Murder of Bedouin women, Meccan Caravan
September 628 A.D. - Massacre of over 500 Jews of Khaybar
1971 - 3,000,000 Bangledeshi Hindus killed
1894 - 1896 - 150,000 Armenian Christians killed by Abdul Hamid
July 1974 - 4,000 Christians killed by Fahri Koroturk
1843-1846 10,000 Assyrian Christians including women and children murdered by Muslims
1915-1918 750,000 Assyrians were killed in the name of Islamic Jihad
Sept 11, 2001 - Almost 3000 Americans killed at the hands of Islam.
This religion was founded by a murderous barbarian and has continued it reign of terror for over 1400 years. The history speaks for itself. Many of you may say that similar things have been done in the name of Christianity and you would be right except that it wasn't Christ out there killing, raping, and plundering. Christ even healed those who would take him to his death and loved them as much as he loved his disciples. Muhammad set the example and the so called fundamentalists are simply following the ways of their prophet. I wish it weren't so, but facts are facts.
The difference between Christ and Mohammed is like the difference between day and night.
You post is full of misconception, and lies (no offence), and it is too long to reply to every one of them now.
You mix soldiers with civilians, and putting inaccurate false information,
You post statements and verses regarding soldiers to soldiers war while right before them is the the known fact in the verse (no civilians should be hurt).
Holy Qur'an [2:190,191,192,193] "And fight in the way of God with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely God does not love those who exceed the limits.
And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
But if they desist, then surely Godis Forgiving, Merciful.
And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for God, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors."
Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) never killed an innocent civilian, and his orders were clear than no civilian should be hurt during war. He was very mercifull, he set the whole Quraish tribe free when he won the war against them, his mercy was the reason they and most Arabs converted to Islam.
Moslims wars were far cleaner than christian wars (no offence), cause the main rule in Islam is never hurt civilians, and war is for specific reasons, and no non moslim shall ever be compelled to be a moslim.
(There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in God (Allah) hath grasped a firm hand hold which will never break. God (Allah) is Hearer, Knower.) holy Qur'an Surah 2. Al-Baqara, verse no. 256.
(And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?.) holy Qur'an Surah 10. Yunus, verse no. 99.
Holy Qur'an [60:8,9]
"God does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely God loves the doers of justice.
God only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion,and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust."
War is for only two specific reasons:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahmoud mrt
As it was mentioned, To explain how the Islamic empire was extended:
Islam gives the right for moslims to fight foreign armies for specific reasons:
1) The foreign country attacked the moslim country (Like the eastern roman empire first raised armies against the moslim country since the prophet "pbuh" time).
2) The moslims who invite others to Islam are killed or imprisoned, also anyone who convert to be a moslim is killed or imprisoned.
And since all the countries in this historical middle ages were not allowing any new religions to be presented or accept any conversion to Islam, So this was the norm.
The armies were organized and knew very well that they are not allowed to kill any civilian or harm priests or churches,etc.
Non moslims men only pay a small tax called (Jezya) if they can afford it, while moslims pay the Islamic tax (Zakat), they are both equal citizens and have the same rights as moslims with the known rule (lahm ma lana wa alihom ma alina) "they have the same rights as us and same duties as us". They are not entered into moslims armies, which make them even have more rights than moslims. If a non moslim is poor and cannot afford living he has the right to have money from the moslim government so as to live.
In Egypt it took about 400 years for moslims to reach 90%, by free will conversion, marriage, migration, etc. The same for other regions, it took decades for moslim population to reach majority.
If you look at countries like Indonesia and Malaysia, no single moslim arabian army was there, they converted to Islam due to the good morals of moslim traders who invited them to Islam.
As for the Prophet's (pbuh) marriages, i replied to this also:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahmoud mrt
The Prophet had only one wife from the age of 25 till about age 45, in his power and youth, then another one wife for about three years.
Having many wives was the normal trend of the age,
The increase in the no. of wives to 9 is due to logical reason for every marriage, examples are political religious alliance with new moslim tribes, political relation with Egypt (maria from egypt), honoring the wives of the moslim dead in battles defending the state, Order by God to practically eliminate adoption by marring the divorced wife of his formal adopted boy (zaid ibn haretha), etc. (Note: This is to eliminate naming the adopted child after the adopter, and giving him heritance rights, etc, but adoption with no name change is permitted and encouraged).
As for Om almoamenin Asha, yes she was young (about 9 years old) when she married the prophet (peace be upon him), but this also was the normal state in all marriages then, they were fully mature in a young age, and very well prepared sociologically and physically for marriage.
Any girl in Islam has the full right to accept or refuse the marriage, just to note it out.
You're trying to apply today's' standards on 14 hundred centuries ago standards, this is totally illogic.
Aisha was the daughter of the prophet's (pbuh) closest companion Abu Bakr Elsedeek, her young age benefited Islam very much cause she had the mental ability to memories many of the prophet (pbuh) traditions, She was most respected in the prophet's life and after his death, she was from the most respected scholars of the age.
God then forbade the prophet (pbuh) from marring any other wives, so in essence he had less writes than the rest of moslims.
Note the having more than one wife is only permitted if you can equally treat them with respect and good manners, and of course money.
Peace
Last edited by mahmoud mrt; 07-03-2008 at 05:53 AM..
Its easy to find our differences and live at war,but it would be easier to find our similarities and live in peace.Islam,Christians and Jews, these are all names which mean one thing, belief in a larger than life aspect of life.I'am a muslim and have read the Quran,and is has mentioned love to all the prophets,and equality among them including Jesus,Mohammed and Moses.The quran is read by millions around the world,but the interperation is what makes the difference.The world Jihad means to some as a external war with others,to me it means the internal conflict of our minds doing good or bad.I wish the media can show the muslims that live a peaceful life just like other's,instead they depict horrible violence that is committed,where in reference to the Quran has no context for these horrible crimes against the human race.No where in the Quran does it state to commit suicide by attaching bombs to yourself and killing other's.The Muslim faith has been corrupted by a small group of people who lack education,love and humility.We must learn to live in peace with different faith's that's the real test of God .
To my knowledge both the Jews and the Muslims and by extention the Christians are all decended from Abraham. The Jews being the offspring of his wife Sarah and the Muslims the offspring of his wife Hagar. So yes they have the same God. Just different branches of the same tree if you like.
That is , of course, if you can believe the "history" of the bible. At the least it points to a common ancestry which makes sense considering they are from the same region.
Its easy to find our differences and live at war,but it would be easier to find our similarities and live in peace.Islam,Christians and Jews, these are all names which mean one thing, belief in a larger than life aspect of life.I'am a muslim and have read the Quran,and is has mentioned love to all the prophets,and equality among them including Jesus,Mohammed and Moses.The quran is read by millions around the world,but the interperation is what makes the difference.The world Jihad means to some as a external war with others,to me it means the internal conflict of our minds doing good or bad.I wish the media can show the muslims that live a peaceful life just like other's,instead they depict horrible violence that is committed,where in reference to the Quran has no context for these horrible crimes against the human race.No where in the Quran does it state to commit suicide by attaching bombs to yourself and killing other's.The Muslim faith has been corrupted by a small group of people who lack education,love and humility.We must learn to live in peace with different faith's that's the real test of God .
Deja vu. Didn't you post this exact same post word for word in another thread?
No, they are not the same God. Jews and Christians worship the same God, but the Jewish people do not recognize Jesus as the son of God. The muslim god is not the same God that Christians worship. If you do a quick google search you'll see that what Christians believe about God is very different from what muslims believe about Allah.
i'm sorry but you are wrong. 1st, Allah means god, it's not the name of their god. Jews, christians AND Muslims DO follow the same god, just not in the same way. Muslims are the only ones who do believe that all three, Moses, jesus, Muhammad are real and believe in what they have done, but Muslims believe that jesus was just a good man and a prophet. and see that Muhammad is just higher then the other two. Jews believe jesus was a good man, but not the son of god, christians believe that moses was a prophet, but don't believe in Muhammad. The faith of Islam started with Abraham's first son Ishmael. when after Isaac Abraham cast Ishmael and his mother(who was Abrahams maid/slave) from his house. sending them out into the waste land. i am Pagan and it is sad that i know more about the christian faith then some christians.
Its easy to find our differences and live at war,but it would be easier to find our similarities and live in peace.Islam,Christians and Jews, these are all names which mean one thing, belief in a larger than life aspect of life.I'am a muslim and have read the Quran,and is has mentioned love to all the prophets,and equality among them including Jesus,Mohammed and Moses.The quran is read by millions around the world,but the interperation is what makes the difference.The world Jihad means to some as a external war with others,to me it means the internal conflict of our minds doing good or bad.I wish the media can show the muslims that live a peaceful life just like other's,instead they depict horrible violence that is committed,where in reference to the Quran has no context for these horrible crimes against the human race.No where in the Quran does it state to commit suicide by attaching bombs to yourself and killing other's.The Muslim faith has been corrupted by a small group of people who lack education,love and humility.We must learn to live in peace with different faith's that's the real test of God .
even though i am what would be called Pagan. i try to bring truth to people about Muslims not being what the Media says that they are like. i salute you.
All three worship the Same God of Abraham. Muslims that worship Allah via the ancient pagan
"moon god" silliness have a credibility issue in spite of the fact Allah means God in arabic evidenced by
the moon symbol and idol worship dating back centruries. Christians of course believe that God
has three distinct manifestations albeit roles ie,Father Son and Holy Spirit a plurality yet ONE.
Jews worship the God of Abraham yet rejected Jesus oops (let messiah slip through their fingers)
Today those arrogant high priests would have told the nation of Israel ....our bad. Anyway,
Muslims are cursed via their mediator Mohammed (wrong guy). Catholics are cursed via Mariology
and many other mediators too numerous to list (ridiculous) yet they believe in Jesus! Jews will receive their judgement along with other
unbelievers in Tribulation where we see most of the Islamic world destroyed by God and His heavenly
army Armagedon/Gog and Magoog as they protect the now believing Israel (Jews). The demonic forces of satan are cast into the Lake of Fire. Who thunk?
Last edited by DASULAR17; 10-26-2010 at 11:17 PM..
Reason: spell
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That the Jews and the Christians have their own prophets.
This is what I meant.
Then again the Christians have persecuted the Jews and the Islam several times, simply because they do not accept Jesus as God.
