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Nope; sorry. I looked around in my mind. No one here but me.
* Regarding Christian's intents on independant skeptical thinking: I happened on a thread over on the Christian site a few weeks ago where they were quietly discussing how, exactly, to deal with the dis-believers. I felt like a "fly on the wall" because they certainly weren't talking as though we were supposed to hear them. Their strategy points, paraphrased, were:
1. Start controversial threads.
2. Listen with apparent sympathy and understanding. Look for any opportunities to introduce the Word of the Lord.
3. Understand that atheists are in trouble, morally rudderless and without ethics. And thereby unable to cope, properly, with life's problems. As all-knowing Christians, understand that you have the ultimate answers. Don't give in to their brand of reason. (That would be the logical kind...).
4. Get them into a discussion where the "fundys" can bring out the illogic or contradictions of the atheists' ideas. (Now THAT'S funny, eh? and I think it's called "baiting").
5. Understand and develop a consolidated strategy for dealing with the sinful, disgusting ways of gays and lesbians, and how to help them deal with what Christians assert is an obvious defect, sickness and perversion. NOTE: A lot fewer (%) of loving gay couples split up than do officially married God-protected Christians. Interesting stat! Ditto for their strategies to shut out ANY abortion issues, stem cell research support, the teaching of evolution and on and on (AOAO). We're narrow-minded?
There was a palpable patronizing feeling on that thread. A sort of parent-dealing-with-troubled-child approach. How arrogant yet subtle.
So... I conclude that
1) we're constantly being drawn in to "discussions" in which they then "call us" when we express righteous indignation at their insults and put-downs. Or if we bite on their patronizing "statements" about how we think, what we believe or our influence on others.
2) Absent religious dogma and fundamentalist proselytizing, we atheists would not even be talking here. No fear, no dreaded night-sweats, no wondering "what if I'm wrong?" crap. The utter boredom of having to live an endless life as a smarmy Xtian rewarded with an eternal life in heaven, patting an obviously conflicted lion on the head as he wonders what to do about that delicious-looking lamb under that tree, etc.
Finally, DOTL, your most egregious and persistant insult, and that of your fellow dogmatists, is that absent your brand of Christianity, we just don't know how to behave properly. Unlike you. That we are unable to come up with a truly workable set of near-godly (ohhh... that's gonna prompt a response, eh guys?) ethics. No no! Not so. I can clearly see what thuggery and religion have wrought, and I refuse to behave likewise.
You should be so lucky, woman, to have me step around the corner when the street thugs descend on you. You won't be able to thank your Lord for my timely appearance. Perhaps we can go and have a victory coffee after I bust their silly ethics. I'll also bet that many of those inner city kids, black, white or Hispanic, were raised in a Christian church-going family. Little Rap-Sheet Salvador can probably recite some biblical chapter and verse. Wanna bet? I, however, cannot, but will, I promise, defend you, ethically bereft though I may be.
I'll be in my study. Awaiting proof.
~~~~He's a strange one, that Mr. Grinch~~~~
Hey, isn't it getting close to Christmas? CHRISTmas. Hmmmm. I LOVE CHRISTmas.
All my comments are from your opening thread post. Nowhere else, save for my not deleting the ref. to Haaziq, who was also responding to you.
It is true that quoting a requote can make it look like someone else is saying something. Sorry Haaziq; not my intent. but as for your direct questions, DOTL, yah got me.
To your recent #101 post, 11:23am, 11-17-'08, today. "Come on, people, learn how to quote properly!!! Please adjust your post (meaning delete my sn from your quote) because I didn't say that!! GCS did." [quote, DOTL]
What is it you didn't say here? Just curious, not combative.
Otherwise, unless we're just quibbling in order to confuse or deflect the argument, I think the "jist" of my post is still valid. Don't you?
Sittin' here with nothing else to do but answer you, honestly. Drinkin' good coffee and opening my mind to any fair wind that blows. And being highly entertained to boot! Blah blah blah. I remain YrHmbSrvnt.
Duh, uh, here's what I said, guess you conveniently missed quoting the whole of my post. Let me show ya how it's done
Quote:
Originally posted by DayoftheLord
Come on, people, learn how to quote properly!!! Please adjust your post (meaning delete my sn from your quote) because I didn't say that!! GCS did. (This is response to everyone who is struggling with quoting and for you to correct yours)
There's an obvious disconnect between man and His Creator. The Creator created logic and reality. The arrogance is astounding. (This is my response to your post)
I be more than happi to help u ifn yous need pointering in this dipartmint
Geesh...do I have to explain every single one of my posts?
~~~~He's a strange one, that Mr. Grinch~~~~
Hey, isn't it getting close to Christmas? CHRISTmas. Hmmmm. I LOVE CHRISTmas.
(lessee... did I get this quote right? worry worry...)
Yep. Me too; love it, though I despise the obligatory ultra-consumerist gift-giving that was supposed to be simply a metaphor for the gifting by the three "wise men". You know, those wanderers who coincidentally were apparently not "up" on astro-science, passing comets, etc. After all, how could they be back then? There was precious little logic and scientific evaluation. Just a bunch of peasants who wanted to be comforted against strange inexplicable things. Like, you know, lightning. Floods. Earthquakes. Comets. The moon. The sun. The stars. Ohhhh God Save Us All!!!!!
The reason I and many other atheists do love Christmas, despite it's having been hijacked by religion to break up a time-honored pagan winter feast, is that it affords the opportunity to celebrate with one's family and friends. I mean, you guys even agree that Christ wasn't born in December! Nowadays, I and my friends take considerable joy in the freedom from religious intrusion that we have happily built into our celebrations. Finally free of guilt, false promises and screwy logic.
To the pesky Christians who keep trying to own Christmas, I say "Go away". I'll even be polite and add: "Please".
Run along now, son. You're too quick to insult, yet slow to honestly consider or concede ANYTHING. How sad for your larger understanding of life, your fellow human beings, and your own true peace of mind. If I believed in it, I'd surely pray for you.
My final "positive criticism" comment on your original OP point and thread: it would certainly take someone with a more friendly, open and conciliatory outlook than yourself, in addition to real proof, to make me a believer. http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/angel/ange1loose.gif (broken link)
Last edited by rifleman; 11-17-2008 at 09:42 PM..
Reason: typos
Did Jesus say to love the sinner and hate the sin?
Not in these exact words, but that is what Jesus was trying to impress. But we are also told to rebuke if necessary. Doesn't mean we don't love someone. Actually it's love that is the driving force in all that a real Christian does. I'm not talking about "squatters" in Christianity. A person can claim to be anything these days, doesn't mean they are.
No you and others can't grasp the concept of no evidence means no proof.
When we were kids we believed in Santa Claus and I could have said that since we get presents on christmas that means he's real, I can even go farther and say we know what he looks like and we know his life story and origins.
But it doesn't make him anymore real than a deity.....if you're good and believe in Santa you will be rewarded.....sound familiar?
(lessee... did I get this quote right? worry worry...)
Yep. Me too; love it, though I despise the obligatory ultra-consumerist gift-giving that was supposed to be simply a metaphor for the gifting by the three "wise men". You know, those wanderers who coincidentally were apparently not "up" on astro-science, passing comets, etc. After all, how could they be back then? There was precious little logic and scientific evaluation. Just a bunch of peasants who wanted to be comforted against strange inexplicable things. Like, you know, lightning. Floods. Earthquakes. Comets. The moon. The sun. The stars. Ohhhh God Save Us All!!!!!
The reason I and many other atheists do love Christmas, despite it's having been hijacked by religion to break up a time-honored pagan winter feast, is that it affords the opportunity to celebrate with one's family and friends. I mean, you guys even agree that Christ wasn't born in December! Nowadays, I and my friends take considerable joy in the freedom from religious intrusion that we have happily built into our celebrations. Finally free of guilt, false promises and screwy logic.
I would love it if the gift giving stopped also. The original meaning of Christmas, contrary to what you said and you know it to be true also, has been hijacked by paganism, not the other way around. What's it called again.....Oh yeah, CHRISTmas. But if the world has it's way, it's soon going to be called devilmas. Oh and don't we dare say Merry Christmas!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! Off with my head!!
Quote:
To the pesky Christians who keep trying to own Christmas, I say "Go away". I'll even be polite and add: "Please".
Seriously? You can't be that completely blinded by darkness that you can't see His name in CHRISTmas?
Quote:
Run along now, son. You're too quick to insult, yet slow to honestly consider or concede ANYTHING. How sad for your larger understanding of life, your fellow human beings, and your own true peace of mind. If I believed in it, I'd surely pray for you.
Awww...can dish it out but can't take it. How typical. And btw, I'm not your son and never could be, although I get the feeling I could be young enough to be your daughter. I consider all, it's just that not all is worthy of my brilliant responses. See how that works? Arrogance is REALLY annoying, isn't it? You'd pray for me? I'll be praying for you too!!!
Quote:
My final "positive criticism" comment on your original OP point and thread: it would certainly take someone with a more friendly, open and conciliatory outlook than yourself, in addition to real proof, to make me a believer.
You can't insult me and try to turn it around so that I seem to be doing some kind of harm to God's work. You don't have that kind of power, my friend. You are quite powerless, in fact, as we all are. Let's see....can you live forever? No. Can you do anything about that? No. Can you or anyone else who is alive know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can control your day tomorrow, or your next minute for that matter?
What if you were to die in a tragic accident tomorrow? Where will you go? Do you know for a fact that there isn't an afterlife and a heaven or hell? NO. Your life is so fantastic and fulfilling on this earth living without God or Jesus that you're willing to throw away ETERNITY for this mist of a moment on earth? Now THAT really is bizarre thinking. Totally illogical.
I would love it if the gift giving stopped also. The original meaning of Christmas, contrary to what you said and you know it to be true also, has been hijacked by paganism, not the other way around. What's it called again.....Oh yeah, CHRISTmas. But if the world has it's way, it's soon going to be called devilmas. Oh and don't we dare say Merry Christmas!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! Off with my head!!
Seriously? You can't be that completely blinded by darkness that you can't see His name in CHRISTmas?
Awww...can dish it out but can't take it. How typical. And btw, I'm not your son and never could be, although I get the feeling I could be young enough to be your daughter. I consider all, it's just that not all is worthy of my brilliant responses. See how that works? Arrogance is REALLY annoying, isn't it? You'd pray for me? I'll be praying for you too!!!
You can't insult me and try to turn it around so that I seem to be doing some kind of harm to God's work. You don't have that kind of power, my friend. You are quite powerless, in fact, as we all are. Let's see....can you live forever? No. Can you do anything about that? No. Can you or anyone else who is alive know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you can control your day tomorrow, or your next minute for that matter?
What if you were to die in a tragic accident tomorrow? Where will you go? Do you know for a fact that there isn't an afterlife and a heaven or hell? NO. Your life is so fantastic and fulfilling on this earth living without God or Jesus that you're willing to throw away ETERNITY for this mist of a moment on earth? Now THAT really is bizarre thinking. Totally illogical.
Goodnight, Gunman. I'll be praying for you.
Again, we've already discussed the problems with Pascal's Wager. It only takes two worldviews into account, not considering many other religions that could also be the "truth". So what if we're wrong? What if you are wrong too? Other religions have punishments for living the way you do I'm sure. It takes ethnocentrism/cultural bias to assume your own way is the only true way. I 'believe' that if God exists, he will judge me based on my life, not on my willingness to abandon reason and follow other humans. If God cared what religion we were, we would all be one religion. "God" gave me reason, and if I don't use it then I am denying God's gift.
As for Christmas, I don't think it's a pagan tradition to rack up credit card bills every year right after thanksgiving. That is an American tradition, built off of a holiday that Christians derived from pagan traditions. If God is responsible for Christianity, then he is responsible for the surge in consumerism and materialism every holiday season.
The reason I and many other atheists do love Christmas, despite it's having been hijackedby religion to break up a time-honored pagan winter feast, is that it affords the opportunity to celebrate with one's family and friends. I mean, you guys even agree that Christ wasn't born in December! Nowadays, I and my friends take considerable joy in the freedom from religious intrusion that we have happily built into our celebrations. Finally free of guilt, false promises and screwy logic.
Well rifleman, you can use the pagan christmas tree without worry. That tradition started over a thousand years before Christ was born.
For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. JEREMIAH 10:3-4
No you and others can't grasp the concept of no evidence means no proof.
When we were kids we believed in Santa Claus and I could have said that since we get presents on christmas that means he's real, I can even go farther and say we know what he looks like and we know his life story and origins.
But it doesn't make him anymore real than a deity.....if you're good and believe in Santa you will be rewarded.....sound familiar?
Yeah, you're right. Just because several hundred witnesses saw Jesus walking around after hanging on the cross and dying there's not one bit of proof. Probably a mass hallucination
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The Grinch apparently also enjoyed a good meal!
