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. I take the replies and answers as they come, and they don't come nicely. I respond like an adult because I am one, you just don't like my responses. So, I don't agree with what you say and you don't agree with what I say, but somehow it's okay for you to respond however you see fit and when I do the same, I'm an infant?
And yet, I'm not the one that threatened in a huff to leave the thread, am I? I'm not the only one who saw it that way, either. The whole thing is, YOU started the thread, and when you don't like the answers you grab your ball and threaten to run home. Good on ya. It's quite amusing.
Uh, could you correct your post, please? I didn't say this, Sanspeur did. Can't have that kind of confusion, don't want to be accused of flip-flopping.
Uh....No I didn't...It may be just a forum glitch.
Really, what WOULD it take for an unbeliever to actually believe in God and Jesus?
What if after you die you find out how horribly wrong you were but there is nothing you can do to change it then?
Why not correct the situation RIGHT NOW!!
Because that approach requires me to live my life in constant fear, brainlessly accepting the blather of others, versus my own decisions reached through critical thinking. Not arrogance, just the quiet peace attending an honest appreciation of our human frailties, with no-one standing by to save us all. Look up "Critical Thinking", DOTL!
Most people have heard of Pascal's Wager, but I will post it here just in case some have never heard it. Pascal's Wager (From Wikipedia) Pascal's Wager (or Pascal's Gambit)
To which I respond: don't be basing your life's essence on Wikipedia definitions. There's too much proof (!!) of their fallability. Mostly they're informative, but esp. when taken out of context as in your example, it's dangerous.
Believe in God, because you have absolutely nothing to lose, and quite possibly everything to gain in doing so. If you choose not to believe in God, then you could lose everything if you are wrong.
I have EVERYTHING to gain. I value independant thought and action and intellectual freedom above most all else. To blindly follow, especially given the wretched violent excesses of organized religion, is to give up on your own values, your own ethics, your seslf-worth.
Surely you understand the actual definition of "PROOF"? No? Faith isn't proof, in fact it is the default position absent proof. True PROOF abdicates the need for faith.
You aren't just baiting us here are you?
Overthinking and reasoning could be the demise of one's soul.
True. Overthinking, yep. But just "thinking"? Unlikely to hurt you too much, unless the complexity of our existence, not yet fully explained, causes you to buy too much OTC Prilosec.
[quote=DayoftheLord;6183433]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haaziq
How much proof do you need? What kind of proof? [Well, just any proof will do. Even a suspicious bit would give rise to some new thinking.] God came in the form of Jesus Christ the man, died a horrible death and arose 3 days later. 500 people witnessed His resurrection. Isn't that proof enough, not to mention the whole of creation?
Nope. 'Course not!
Here you go again... "Proof" and "Creationism" in the same sentence. Vast and logical "proof" for evolution, geologic time well past your mythic 6034 yr chronology for earth, and other clarifications, clearly exist, at least to the standards of rational fearless people. The absence of evidence (yet) is not evidence against anything. Just be patient, DOTL. Science marches on, sadly for you if you can't "Pull up! Pull up!"
I know that there is one God, but why don't you?
It's not up for debate with me, it's not an argument. It's truth. What's flawed is mankind and the arrogance of man believing he is his own god.
Hardly what we think. I am, however, responsible for my thoughts and actions. Doesn't make me a god.
This is the perfect example of exactly what my OP is about. Overthinking and debating something that is a total waste of time, because it's not up for debate.
So you want to shut down our on-line debating on this topic? Now THAT'S scary, and is why we back away from evangelical politicians.
God exists, whether people acknowledge that or not. [Nope, sorry...]. God CREATED ALL, therefore HE UNDERSTANDS ALL, we humans understand nothing. [You continue to insult me and many others...]
There's no comparison here, God is the Creator, we're the created. How can any human being expect to grasp the mind or compare him/herself to God? Unbelievable!!
[quote=GCSTroop;6183520]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord
What I take issue with, in your response is that you have shut off any attempt at logical discourse and debate. You asked the question "What will it take to believe" and someone responded with "How about Proof?" Well, that's your answer DOTL.
Right! Simple question, simple answer.
Perhaps you've failed to recognize, but there are a wide breadth and variety of people on this planet who don't necessarily walk along their lives in lemming-like fashion. So, let's cut the crap and let's talk about evidence. Because that's what we Atheists want in order to believe.
We're not asking for you to stammer and quake just because we don't believe in your celestial smiley face in the sky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherryturner
Try the feeling of the Holy Spirit. [I did. got nothin'!] God is not in proof. God is in faith. Those who have faith also have the proof.
Oh my... how sad and insulting are the posts and proclamations from the believers. I'm pretty sure they are baiting us for the purposes of then proselytizing under the guise of honest debate. Yah think? No-one who can read and type into a computer could be that uncritical in their thinking processes. Could they?
There's truly an obvious disconnect in logic and reality here. The fundamentalist definition of proof is at obvious odds, probably by design, with that which they employ in everyday situations. Or they choose to grasp at their "proofs" absent proof. How sad. Perhaps they are a different species and we shouldn't be trying to interact with them? Chimps versus pigeons?
Well darn it. Be a woman and be accountable! Is that better?
You did say it however: "No rules, no one to be accountable to, just sin, sin, sin." I'm guessing you are counting on god and not yourself.
I could not be more accountable if I tried. I AM accountable to myself, AND to God. Accountable for all of my actions and sins. Because I am accountable to God, therefore I am also extremely accountable to myself. It goes hand in hand. If a person is not accountable to God, such as unbelievers, then there is no accounting to yourself or anyone for that matter....you have free reign to do whatever because you (general) do not recognize sin and that it has to be accounted for to God through repentance. If I didn't hold myself accountable for myself, then God would not listen to my prayers of forgiveness because I am not truly repenting. It has to be sincere and from the heart.
Quote:
No insults, i didn't mean specificlly you, that was more of a question then anything.
beep, beep, beep.....I hear some "backing up" going on here. This was not meant personally, right?
Quote:
Originally posted by ShepsMom
I guess the problem here is you are weak individual and you can't possibly hold yourself accountable for anything you do in your life. You are so lost and confused that you need some creature in the sky to guide you.
Seriously? That's okay though, I took it like a MAN.
God is also using you in these discussions, whether you believe in Him or not.
That statement would be funny if it weren't for the sad fact that people actually believe it.
I also find it ironic how many times theists attempt to make double standards. Claiming their statements are not arguments (When they in fact are) but actual facts, yet they want to talk about flawed arguments. And of course, we we all know that about 99% of people that criticize evolution and the big bang can't even explain them to me. At the same time, we'll read their scriptures and find errors that they will try to explain away. Why should we be the only ones that have to do our research? Oh, wait, I know why. Because "God" dictates anything and everything that doesn't coincide with belief with him is false, even if you know nothing about it.
And yet, I'm not the one that threatened in a huff to leave the thread, am I? I'm not the only one who saw it that way, either. The whole thing is, YOU started the thread, and when you don't like the answers you grab your ball and threaten to run home. Good on ya. It's quite amusing.
I have a headache, man!!! I'm a Christian so I can't get fed up and take a step back? Weird response.
You mean this?
Originally Posted by sanspeur
Right on. I'd see more of a chance of a "higher power" if everything WASN'T different.
I didn't say that...SuSu did.
Edit...See it has attributed your post to me...No wonder you are getting a headache...I am too!
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Yah think? No-one who can read and type into a computer could be that uncritical in their thinking processes. Could they?
