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Originally Posted by Lakeland Yankee A soldier in a war in NOT a murderer!!!!!
Yeah that is true in most cases, but often the Isrealites were ordered to kill just because god was pissed off. Not in any type of self defense or pre emptive strike. What if some nut today said "God told me to kill all the wicked people in L.A.!" God or Mental Illness?
Yeah, don't forget to kill all the babies, rape or collect the virgins for selling later as slaves....Yes, they must have been soldiers alright.. I think today that would be called genocide.
Yeah, don't forget to kill all the babies, rape or collect the virgins for selling later as slaves....Yes, they must have been soldiers alright.. I think today that would be called genocide.
One might forget that these things were also a practice of the gentles.
At times, the Israelites were also targets.
It was a very violent time and violence continues to this day:
slavery, the holocaust and even the persecution of Christians. These things are not God's perfect will. They are the result of man and his sinfulness.
One might also forget that compared to God, all humans are totally evil and unclean.
It is this aspect of God, His holiness, which separates us from Him and sends us to hell by default.
Still, God is not without love and mercy.
He had to make a way to reconcile humanity to Himself - a way to protect us from His wrath - even from His pure holiness.
(Actually, speaking of the Israelite's rebelliousness in the desert)
Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 1Cor 10:6
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." John 3:16-21
Last edited by Richio; 12-03-2008 at 03:27 PM..
Reason: Added the line in bold.
One might forget that these things were also a practice of the gentles.
At times, the Israelites were also targets.
It was a very violent time and violence continues to this day:
slavery, the holocaust and even the persecution of Christians. These things are not God's perfect will. They are the result of man and his sinfulness.
One might also forget that compared to God, all humans are totally evil and unclean.
It is this aspect of God, His holiness, which separates us from Him and sends us to hell by default.
Still, God is not without love and mercy.
He had to make a way to reconcile humanity to Himself - a way to protect us from His wrath - even from His pure holiness.
(Actually, speaking of the Israelite's rebelliousness in the desert)
Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 1Cor 10:6
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." John 3:16-21
Richio, what is this supposed holy and loving God doing all up in human affairs acting like a spoiled child instead of RISING above the drama to provide better and moral options?
One might forget that these things were also a practice of the gentles.
At times, the Israelites were also targets.
It was a very violent time and violence continues to this day:
slavery, the holocaust and even the persecution of Christians. These things are not God's perfect will. They are the result of man and his sinfulness.
One might also forget that compared to God, all humans are totally evil and unclean.
It is this aspect of God, His holiness, which separates us from Him and sends us to hell by default.
Still, God is not without love and mercy.
He had to make a way to reconcile humanity to Himself - a way to protect us from His wrath - even from His pure holiness.
(Actually, speaking of the Israelite's rebelliousness in the desert)
Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved. 1Cor 10:6
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." John 3:16-21
Yes, but God sure incited it and encouraged it when he was mad. As another poster said, why not rise above all that and teach the Israelites to be better? Instead, he gives them permission to do all the most horrible things in his name.
So the other poor tribes, who were never even given an opportunity to get to know and please god, were sacrificed to make place for the Israelites? Why? There was plenty of space. As an example to us? Why? Is that the only way an almighty god could have done it? Please.
The story about Isaac is despicable. A test of faith? What kind of cruel monster would ask a parent to do that to a child?
As Richard Dawkins points out, the OT God is an egomaniacal bully.
Richio, what is this supposed holy and loving God doing all up in human affairs acting like a spoiled child instead of RISING above the drama to provide better and moral options?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gretchen_SDCA
Yes, but God sure incited it and encouraged it when he was mad. As another poster said, why not rise above all that and teach the Israelites to be better? Instead, he gives them permission to do all the most horrible things in his name.
So the other poor tribes, who were never even given an opportunity to get to know and please god, were sacrificed to make place for the Israelites? Why? There was plenty of space. As an example to us? Why? Is that the only way an almighty god could have done it? Please.
The story about Isaac is despicable. A test of faith? What kind of cruel monster would ask a parent to do that to a child?
As Richard Dawkins points out, the OT God is an egomaniacal bully.
You are quite welcome to your opinions.
I've stated my own - based on what I can understand from the Bible as a whole.
There are many things I cannot grasp, but I do know that Jesus is the manifestation of God's love and mercy.
You are quite welcome to your opinions.
I've stated my own - based on what I can understand from the Bible as a whole.
There are many things I cannot grasp, but I do know that Jesus is the manifestation of God's love and mercy.
And likewise, Richio. You are entitled to place faith in that belief.
I think parts of the Old Testament were included in the Bible for historical purposes more than anything else, to give body to the lineage that leads to Jesus, and why He was our Messiah. After all, He was a Peacenik on a mission. (Peacenik! I haven't even thought of that word in decades!) Comparatively, I don't think the violence in it sounds any worse than the current evil in other parts of the world (although many of those are Islamic countries).
For this, I never took the Old Testament seriously enough to relate to it OR feel embarrassment. Nothing to be embarrassed about. Although I suppose I'm not as good a Christian as I could be, because I have never been able to accept Jesus's turn-the-other-cheek passitivity. Just ain't my nature.
And, hell, look at China, a communist country with NO religion that can't be at peace, either. The Falon Gong ~ a very passive peaceful "religion" ~ suffers atrocities for their beliefs.
You are right, the OT god telling his morons to rape and kill is no worse the Allah telling the muslims to rape and kill.
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