Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1
Hi Richio,
Actually they were into human and child sacrifice...not that there is anything wrong with that.
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Hi gwynedd,
I'd “suppose” by “they, you mean the pagans.
I also suppose you left off the smerky rolling eyes smiley face.
"not that there's anything wrong with that." 
The rest of this is for the general reader - pertaining to the OP.
Richio
Adam and Eve had brought forth the knowledge of good and evil, but their descendants were unable to distinguish between the two.
That's what much of the Old Testament is about.
The Ammonites sacrificed children to Molech, and the Moabites
(from Moab, the son of Lot’s oldest daughter) had a similar god, Chemosh.
The Canaanites, the Syrians
(Hittites, Jebusites, Amorites, and others) and the Arabs also had some form of fire-god to whom they sacrificed children.
[Smith's Bible Dictionary]
Israel also practiced this, at times embracing it as their comfort level throughout the Old Testament.
After bringing His people out of Egypt
(a people chosen in part to be a symbol of man’s propensity to seek after the wrong thing),
YHWH gave them instructions to avoid defilement, but they often didn't listen very well.
YHWH is the author of life, but His creation cast Him aside to worship
(even by killing their own offspring) gods made up by imaginings and evil delusion.
Needless to say, there were/are no actual entities who could call themselves "Molech" or "Chemosh" or any other name.
God was not jealous of gods which are not really anything at all.
He is jealous for his people – that they
not serve false gods – just as a parent does not want to see their son or daughter shacked up with a loser/leach/abuser - eventually leading to ruin and sorrow.
Worse than that, it was as if His creation was shacking up with a blowup doll - fully expecting an enriching and satisfying relationship.
This is God’s jealousy, and He created a nation to be a parable of this human drama.
Some have it in their heads that YHWH is a “spoiled child” objecting to His demand that we separate the clean from the unclean and that we honor Him as the living God – the only God.
Parables are odd things, because many meanings can be contrived with man’s reasoning, but only the Spirit gives understanding of spiritual truth.
At this point today, YHWH has revealed Himself to the point of providing a way of restoration – something which no man can accomplish on his own.
So the way now is open to all people – not just one nation or one lineage.
There can be no more lineage of any meaning - past the appearance of Yeshua, Christ Jesus.
Now that Christ has been lifted up on the cross, He calls to all people everywhere
(and we must bring His message).
Those seeking more than a relationship with emptiness are receptive to the Spirit and He germinates the seed of the gospel.
Some allow it to take good root in their hearts and grow – yielding lasting fruit of love grace and peace.
All - by placing full faith in the living God.
Sadly, some who apparently believe He is real, judge Him by human standards of measure as they would attempt to discern another human.
They deem him to be childish and over demanding, and they want nothing to do with the giver of breath.
Only - God who created every atom in this seemingly infinite universe and the laws by which everything operates is not on a level with the kid next door.
The spoiled ungrateful child is the human race and children must be taught the difference between right and wrong – clean and unclean – good and evil.
While the children of Israel were still the object lesson, it was necessary to remove bad influences and entrapments.
Thus, God decreed the removal of those who would say, “
come, offer your offspring to this god we've made up”.
We might think of it as harsh and uncivilized, but God was taking things one step at a time, and THAT step meant removing evil from the environment of His children.
Those who were removed were not exactly politically correct either.
The evil they practiced could not be allowed to persist - just as civil society does not allow murderers, molesters and thieves the freedom to pursue their desires for the sake of political correctness.
So God ordered that these peoples be removed – even eliminated from the immediate environment of the Israelites.
He warned them not to even make a treaty with these “neighbors”, but Joshua got tricked into doing just that – “beginning” the strife which continues today.
Here for the reader, are some of YHWH’s “thoughts” concerning human and even child sacrifice resulting in defilement and wickedness.
'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God; I am the LORD.
'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
'Also you shall not have intercourse with any animal to be defiled with it, nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.
'Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled.
'For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants.
'But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you
(for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled);
so that the land will not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you.
Lev 18:21-28
Because of these things, the northern kingdom of Israel was sent into Assyria
(c720 BC) - into permanent exile as a distinct people (
Jeremiah 3)(
2Kings 17).
The house of Judah/the kingdom of Judah however, had periods of repentance but still maintained the high places where pagan worship was conducted.
YHWH did not divorce them – cutting them off, but He sent Judah into Babylonian captivity for a time before beginning the second Temple.
"Indeed this city has been to Me a provocation of My anger and My wrath from the day that they built it, even to this day, so that it should be removed from before My face,
because of all the evil of the sons of Israel and the sons of Judah which they have done to provoke Me to anger--they, their kings, their leaders, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
"They have turned their back to Me and not their face; though I taught them, teaching again and again, they would not listen and receive instruction.
"But they put their detestable things in the house which is called by My name, to defile it.
"They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
"Now therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning this city of which you say, 'It is given into the hand of the king of Babylon by sword, by famine and by pestilence.'
Jer 32:31-36
Several hundred years before the release
of Judah from Babylon came to pass (
Ezra), Isaiah even named Cyrus the Great as the instrument God would use to bring this about (
Is 44,45)
Ezekiel prophesied about the House of Israel who never returned from Assyria, but were dispersed into obscurity – so that any of us
(you or I) might be descendant of the House of Israel.
And so Jesus came to rescue
"the lost sheep of the house of Israel
" – offering the Lamb of God as atonement, if we will but repent and believe allow that good news to take root in our hearts.
(
Matthew 15:24)
"Therefore, say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Will you defile yourselves after the manner of your fathers and play the harlot after their detestable things?
"When you offer your gifts, when you cause your sons to pass through the fire, you are defiling yourselves with all your idols to this day. And shall I be inquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live," declares the Lord GOD, "I will not be inquired of by you.
"What comes into your mind will not come about, when you say: 'We will be like the nations, like the tribes of the lands, serving wood and stone.'
"As I live," declares the Lord GOD, "surely with a mighty hand and with an outstretched arm and with wrath poured out, I shall be king over you.
"I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you are scattered, with a mighty hand and with an outstretched arm and with wrath poured out;
and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will enter into judgment with you face to face.
Ezekiel 20:30-35
We shall all answer for our own high places, and yet believers have Yeshua, our high priest and our Lamb and our mediator. (
Hebrews)
Am I ashamed of the Old Testament or YHWH?
No.
It is the story of the most high God beginning the work of restoring His creation into correct relationship with Him.
Sadly, many will rely on their various gods and even just being a "good person" by their own might.
However, at the culmination of this drama, the chaff and the tares must be burned away – leaving only the fruit of the field.
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), I see the bible as a collection of writings by men in man's attempt to understand God. I think too often, men have looked at the way things are and assigned devine meaning where there should have been none. Sometimes things just are and there's no devine reason for it. Perhaps the reason Christ came was that we had it so wrong so he did away with the law and gave us something we could handle. Grace.
