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Even though it's sooooooo off topic...I can't help but interject on the Fleet-Mel G economic debate here. Since that is MY "strong suit"...Business/Finance/Economics.
You can't knock other administrations, but then "Yea-Rah-Rah!" the Clinton Era as some great credit to him for his brilliant fiscal policy.
He never had a sustained war to fund..."hot" or "cold"...and the "tech boom" fueled the economy like a rocket booster.
Though Gore would boast that, I guess, since he put forth a Bill in 1991 the "HPCA" (High Performance Computing and Communications Act) to help fund initial research, that he "created the internet"...it was, in fact, that technology hitting stride and filling the markets eager for those high priced PCs (I paid as much for my weak Dell PC as all my kitchen appliances put together), and related supporting services, that generated gazillions in tax revenue (that didn't get sucked up warring) that made him look much better than he was. He was lucky enough that his fiscal policy didn't have to be really good...anyone would have shined at the time. Though I will give him credit as an effective POTUS overall (not a good person...but a competent USA CEO)...he only looked good from a fiscal standpoint due to fortunate timing.
How he would have done in "tough times"...we will never know. Though I would bet, a lot better than the guy we have now...who is clueless as to what to do.
Even though it's sooooooo off topic...I can't help but interject on the Fleet-Mel G economic debate here. Since that is MY "strong suit"...Business/Finance/Economics.
You can't knock other administrations, but then "Yea-Rah-Rah!" the Clinton Era as some great credit to him for his brilliant fiscal policy.
He never had a sustained war to fund..."hot" or "cold"...and the "tech boom" fueled the economy like a rocket booster.
Though Gore would boast that, I guess, since he put forth a Bill in 1991 the "HPCA" (High Performance Computing and Communications Act) to help fund initial research, that he "created the internet"...it was, in fact, that technology hitting stride and filling the markets eager for those high priced PCs (I paid as much for my weak Dell PC as all my kitchen appliances put together), and related supporting services, that generated gazillions in tax revenue (that didn't get sucked up warring) that made him look much better than he was. He was lucky enough that his fiscal policy didn't have to be really good...anyone would have shined at the time. Though I will give him credit as an effective POTUS overall (not a good person...but a competent USA CEO)...he only looked good from a fiscal standpoint due to fortunate timing.
How he would have done in "tough times"...we will never know. Though I would bet, a lot better than the guy we have now...who is clueless as to what to do.
Well you're obviously well versed. One thing you can drop in the can right away. I ran an encrypted TS mainframe computing center and we were on the old military ARPANET. Gore was the senator from Tennessee and he was the primary individual who managed to get the necessary funding which converted the old system to a workable TCP/IP format. We ran some of the earliest tests with live data. Gore didn't "invent" the Internet but his push for funding certainly brought it through it's infancy into fruition.
As far as Clinton's luck...one point you missed. Reagan/ GHWBush and George Bush all cut taxes for the wealthy. Clinton raised them.
No Republican wants to accept the responsibility for this financial mess but you know what? They don't have any choice because they made it. When Clinton left office $350 billion of the national debt had been bought back and the entire debt was scheduled to be paid off by 2012. George W. Bush used reconciliation to block a Democratic filibuster in 2001 and again in 2003 to cut taxes trillions of dollars with half going to the wealthiest 1% of taxpayers. It's history. Too damn late to try to worm out of it now.
The gap between ordinary Americans and the elite wealthy stretched out more during Bush's two terms than at any other time in history. Live with it.
Well you're obviously well versed. One thing you can drop in the can right away. I ran an encrypted TS mainframe computing center and we were on the old military ARPANET. Gore was the senator from Tennessee and he was the primary individual who managed to get the necessary funding which converted the old system to a workable TCP/IP format. We ran some of the earliest tests with live data. Gore didn't "invent" the Internet but his push for funding certainly brought it through it's infancy into fruition.
As far as Clinton's luck...one point you missed. Reagan/ GHWBush and George Bush all cut taxes for the wealthy. Clinton raised them.
No Republican wants to accept the responsibility for this financial mess but you know what? They don't have any choice because they made it. When Clinton left office $350 billion of the national debt had been bought back and the entire debt was scheduled to be paid off by 2012. George W. Bush used reconciliation to block a Democratic filibuster in 2001 and again in 2003 to cut taxes trillions of dollars with half going to the wealthiest 1% of taxpayers. It's history. Too damn late to try to worm out of it now.
The gap between ordinary Americans and the elite wealthy stretched out more during Bush's two terms than at any other time in history. Live with it.
You are right Mel G...Gore definitely deserves major props for his keen "vision" to what the technology could become, and his support of it...no doubt about that. But IMO "invented" or "created" is hyperbole. Though...to his defense...ALL politicians do that...and he was fighting for "The Championship" at the time.
I agree 100% that the debt has to be pinned on the guys that spent the cash to rack it up. Their party doesn't matter to me...I'm an Independent. Sometimes I wonder what these people are thinking to do this to the country. How can they be so irresponsible?
Your point about cutting taxes for the wealthy (and some are WEALTHY-WEALTHY) is spot on! And why do we have caps on income for collecting Social Security? Why not consider all 100 million of Oprahs' or some bigwig CEOs annual haul? 98% of people pay F.I.C.A. on 100% of their income...but not the ones that can most afford it? What's up with THAT!
Are they really that selfish and greedy?...cuz they can't be that stupid!
Simple cure...BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT and a "FAIR" and/or "FLAT" type tax system. I won't hold my breath though.
You can't compare Santa with God unless you're a hardcore Atheist like the OP seems to be. Do you feel inclined to rip Christianity? Fact is that the majority religion is Christianity in the US and the world and you'll have to deal with that for the rest of your life. You can try to combat it if you feel like you have to, but you can't stay one-sided to find the truth.
You are right Mel G...Gore definitely deserves major props for his keen "vision" to what the technology could become, and his support of it...no doubt about that. But IMO "invented" or "created" is hyperbole. Though...to his defense...ALL politicians do that...and he was fighting for "The Championship" at the time.
I agree 100% that the debt has to be pinned on the guys that spent the cash to rack it up. Their party doesn't matter to me...I'm an Independent. Sometimes I wonder what these people are thinking to do this to the country. How can they be so irresponsible?
Your point about cutting taxes for the wealthy (and some are WEALTHY-WEALTHY) is spot on! And why do we have caps on income for collecting Social Security? Why not consider all 100 million of Oprahs' or some bigwig CEOs annual haul? 98% of people pay F.I.C.A. on 100% of their income...but not the ones that can most afford it? What's up with THAT!
Are they really that selfish and greedy?...cuz they can't be that stupid!
Simple cure...BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT and a "FAIR" and/or "FLAT" type tax system. I won't hold my breath though.
You and I think a lot alike...at least about this "off topic" discussion
You really believe that Democrats wanted tax cuts for the wealthy. Wake up from your fantasy dreams. Republicans have just finished holding tax cuts for the wealthy hostage against every program for middle America that Obama proposed. Don't you ever read anything? Don't you ever doubt a single Republican lie?
Republicans are anti union
Republicans support low taxes for corporations and the wealthy
Republicans have been bought and paid for by corporations and the rich
Republicans are anti social security and have been ever since FDR initiated it
Democrats are for the working class
Democrats support unions
Democrats always paid their way with taxes on the wealthy
Democrats have always supported those who had no chance without government help
Here are a few more you should have listed:
There are some good reasons to be anti union.
Republicans support low taxes for everyone (everyone who pays taxes).
There are also some good reasons to be anti-social security.
Democrats believe the successful should be punished for their wealth (raise their taxes even higher).
The Bush administration spent more on social programs than the Clinton administration did.
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Reagan, George Walker Herbert Bush and his god fearing idiot son ran this nation's debt up like a drunk with five credit cards
The nation's debt has increased by $3.4 trillion in the last two years... a much faster increase than it did during "that idiot son's" terms.
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You need some serious indoctrination with the truth
Okay, when you start posting some truth, I'll read it.
The nation's debt has increased by $3.4 trillion in the last two years... a much faster increase than it did during "that idiot son's" terms.
You still didn't acknowledge that the interest on the Reagan/Bushes debt amounts to about $400 billion a year. That's second only to the defense budget. Obama has to pay that every year...they left him no choice.
Try to remember that during Clintons last term surplus funds were generated. Try to remember that the administration and congress were arguing about how to best use the surplus. Try to remember that the entire national debt was on schedule to be paid off by 2012.
Now...be sure you remember that George W. Bush used reconciliation to block Democratic objections and cut taxes twice, in 2001 and again in 2003 and doubled the national debt from $5.6 trillion to more than $11 trillion. It's the annual interest that's important. When Reagan started funding low taxes for the wealthy with money borrowed from foreign banks in 1981 the annual interest was about $40 billion. After he and the Bushes quadrupled, then doubled it again the only annual expense this nation has which is larger than the interest on the debt is the military and the defense budget.
You're one of those people my maternal grandmother warned me about. You will stand gazing at a stop sign and argue with it.
I voted Republican for most of my life and now I'm ashamed of it.
You still didn't acknowledge that the interest on the Reagan/Bushes debt amounts to about $400 billion a year. That's second only to the defense budget. Obama has to pay that every year...they left him no choice.
Try to remember that during Clintons last term surplus funds were generated. Try to remember that the administration and congress were arguing about how to best use the surplus. Try to remember that the entire national debt was on schedule to be paid off by 2012.
Now...be sure you remember that George W. Bush used reconciliation to block Democratic objections and cut taxes twice, in 2001 and again in 2003 and doubled the national debt from $5.6 trillion to more than $11 trillion. It's the annual interest that's important. When Reagan started funding low taxes for the wealthy with money borrowed from foreign banks in 1981 the annual interest was about $40 billion. After he and the Bushes quadrupled, then doubled it again the only annual expense this nation has which is larger than the interest on the debt is the military and the defense budget.
You're one of those people my maternal grandmother warned me about. You will stand gazing at a stop sign and argue with it.
I voted Republican for most of my life and now I'm ashamed of it.
I feel so guilty about the off topic...but what Mel is pointing out is of such dire importance to the well being of the U.S. and its citizens. It has global significance as well.
These people have come very close to financially ruining this country...and if they don't change their ways immediately, we WILL reach a point of no return without a disastrous fall, very soon. Don't know what will happen then...it's unthinkable.
I almost can't believe they have done what they have done...and CONTINUE to do it!! Nice budget they just rolled out, huh?
It's just sickening!
I feel so guilty about the off topic...but what Mel is pointing out is of such dire importance to the well being of the U.S. and its citizens. It has global significance as well.
These people have come very close to financially ruining this country...and if they don't change their ways immediately, we WILL reach a point of no return without a disastrous fall, very soon. Don't know what will happen then...it's unthinkable.
I almost can't believe they have done what they have done...and CONTINUE to do it!! Nice budget they just rolled out, huh?
It's just sickening!
The problem is (well, one of the problems) is that Democrats are more likely to overspend than Republicans.
You still didn't acknowledge that the interest on the Reagan/Bushes debt amounts to about $400 billion a year. That's second only to the defense budget. Obama has to pay that every year...they left him no choice.
You still didn't acknowledge that it is Congress' debt, not Reagan/Bush. And don't put too much faith on Obama... all he seems to be doing is spend, spend, spend.
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Try to remember that during Clintons last term surplus funds were generated. Try to remember that the administration and congress were arguing about how to best use the surplus. Try to remember that the entire national debt was on schedule to be paid off by 2012.
Try to remember that the national debt increased by $1 trillion during Clinton's terms.
Quote:
Now...be sure you remember that George W. Bush used reconciliation to block Democratic objections and cut taxes twice, in 2001 and again in 2003 and doubled the national debt from $5.6 trillion to more than $11 trillion. It's the annual interest that's important. When Reagan started funding low taxes for the wealthy with money borrowed from foreign banks in 1981 the annual interest was about $40 billion. After he and the Bushes quadrupled, then doubled it again the only annual expense this nation has which is larger than the interest on the debt is the military and the defense budget.
When are you going to realize that tax cuts do not cause a deficit?
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You're one of those people my maternal grandmother warned me about. You will stand gazing at a stop sign and argue with it.
You're one of those people of which facts take a long time to be absorbed!
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I voted Republican for most of my life and now I'm ashamed of it.
Considering the alternative (Democrats) I am very proud to be a Republican and am still voting Republican.
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