Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme
Do you see your contradictions? -
|
What contradictions are those ? As a Toddler I had already thought about it quite a lot. Everyone in my family apart from my Father is religious ( moderate but all from different denominations) in one way or another.
As a Baby I had no real thoughts but as a Toddler I did. As soon as I developed the power to think for myself which pretty much came with when I started to speak ( just over one) I started to ask questions of my parents and family about God, and even then I remember thinking it was all make believe ( around 3 years old was when it really first occured to me that Grandpa and Grandma were making believe about God).
My Father tells me I used to drive him nuts with questions about the world, god, nature etc.. even as I began to speak.
Did I have any great theological thoughts at that time. of course not. Did it make sense to me when we went to Churches and Temples and I saw people praying ? Nope. Never did .
The more I read and learnt about it the more able I was to seriously think about it in as rational and logical a manner as possible.
As a toddler I was an Atheist because Religion made no sense ,I did not really understand why it was simply a fact . As a child I continued with my search and still nothing. As a teenager I actually went on a spiritual quest, wanting to truly understand why people believed in God. Nothing.
As a baby I was neither atheist nor religious as there was no real thought process apart from where my next milk came from ....
But as soon as I could articulate my thoughts both verbally and intellectually ( ie when language first kicks in and with it an awareness and intellectual curiosity about the world) I knew it was simply make believe. I knew it.
I see no contradiction in what I say at all. Children are far more perceptive than adults give them credit for. They lack the knowledge and life experience but this does not mean they are morons and unable to think for themselves.
I believe if we respected Children enough to follow their own intellectual path by laying down extensive and wide ranging knowledge in front of them, never patronising we would end up with adults to be reckoned with intellectually . Brain-washing one way or another ( whatever form it takes religious or Atheist if wrong IMO). Children have the RIGHT to be given facts and to make their own minds up. Parents and teachers are here not to teach us what to think but to teach us that WE CAN. That it is OK to dissent, to be the lonely voice , it is OK to be different and not to follow the herd whatever the herd might be.
I do not have children but if I did I hope I would respect them enough as human beings to allow them the intellectual freedom to make their own minds up . I would not want an Atheist child that I made. I would want an Atheist child who is an Atheist because it is what they truly believe. Brain-washing is a negation of the ultimate right we have to the freedom of our thoguhts never mind actions. Thinking for ourselves is the greatest gift nature has endowed us with and I do not feel I would have the right to tell my chidlren what to think. In fact to me it is a form a child abuse, and a severe dereliction of parental duty and responsibilty and a form of neglect.
I was extremely lucky with my Father encouraging me from early childhood to be open to knowledge, books and reasoning. He allowed me to truly explore the world and try to figure it out for myself rather than endoctrinating me to think one way or another. I had full exposure to all kinds of religions , philosophies and ideologies since I could crawl. I was reading "The Little Prince" at age 3 and a 1/2 ,a book full of philosophy and complex ideas but written with Children in mind. Doubt that it you wish.
Quite frankly your tone in all your posts is really patronising and dismissive. Simply because you do not like or do not understand the answers given you does not give you the right to make certain assumptions and assertions about people you know nothing about.
I might not be the same Atheist as I was as a Toddler as I obviously grew in knowledge, understanding and life experience but I was a natural Atheist as a small child and still am now. My deeper feelings and gut reaction of then were reinforced and confirmed as I searched for deeper knowledge and my intellectual horizons opened. I am simply better informed now and can truly understand my natural Atheism.
Maybe being exposed to a wide range of religions from the beginning encouraged me to doubt and question and challenge the veracity of religious claims.
It also taught me not to take everything adults told me at face value.
Simply because you lack the imagination to even try to comprehend that Atheists cannot hate which does not exist and that Atheism is not a defect does not mean you need to patronise.
If you even tried to think about your attitude for even a few seconds ( and I mean think, with your brains not your pre-conceived ideas) you might realise that human beings are all different, we think and feel things differently. Not because we are defective are Atheists a reality but because maybe to us there is nothing out there , nothing to worship, no eternal life , nothing.
We are born, we live and we die. period. We cannot hate god because he/she does not exist. We do have a certain allergy to holier than though preaching extremists who hold their "truth" to be the only valid truth and hate being patronised.
As far as I am concerned if your "god" does not interfere with my life and your beliefs do not hurt anyone or yourself than by all means worship to your heart's content.... If however your "god " is one of intolerance, bigotry and hatred then yes I do have a problem with your beliefs.
I cannot hate which does not exist but do not expect me to love those whose bigotry and fundamentalism puts the world to the sword and leaves nothing but ashes behind with god as an excuse for the barbaric behaviour.
God to me does no exist. I have in 41 years of learning and research, thinking , reading and introspection ever seen any evidence for a supernatural being . Ever. Not once. Not a smidgen of it.
So worship all your like but please stop all the pseudo-psychology about why Atheists do not believe in a deity. Damage and deficiency have nothing to do with it. Only logic, reasoning , rigourous intellectual discourse and common sense coupled with a complete lack of evidence. If you believe in something the onus is on you to prove your assertions.
I have yet to meet one believer who can do so. I am still open to it thoguh so come back when you actually can prove your beliefs.
As for contradictions, how rich is that coming from someone who believes in scriptures so riddled with them it makes fairy tales seem positively scientific by comparison ?
Pot, kettle anyone, anyone ?
Oh and by the way I am not an Atheist so I can give in to my "flesh's lusts desires" as you so hilarious put it talking about your brother. I do not smoke, do not drink ( never have) have never taken drugs ( in fact I am actually quite anti-drugs) , I have never slept around , am not promiscuous and am morally speaking by Christian definitions as square as they come.
It is true that I have lived "in sin" ( by your standards) with the man I love for 21 years ( now just about to be married) but have always been faithful. I am a decent , moral upstanding citizen who tries do be the best she can be . I try to be kind and thoughful and as selfless as I can be. I work hard, am honest, have never stolen a thing in my life ( well I did steal a piece of candy age 4 and after being forced to return it and apologise to the shopkeeper by my Father have since followed a reasonable path of honesty). I try not to lie if I can avoid it, try to think of others before myself and I don't even swear ( and hate swearing fact). I also have a strong aversion to pornography. I do not steal, do not kill and though I may occasionally have coveted my neighbour's oxen ( or at least his Austin-Healey 3000) I have never taken it any other level than simple envy.
I am a normal human being with flaws like everyone else ( pride and impatience being my two worst traits) but I really would not classify myself as immoral. Atheism is not a way for me to behave like an immoral "devil". In fact in Humanism I have found much more genuine morality based on respect for the human race than ever could be found in religion.
All that and guess what I am still an Atheist. Wow. How could that be ? Could it be that ALL human beings have an innate sense of Natural Morality and that we ALL make choices regarding good and evil and are all responsible for our actions.
I take full responsibility for ALL my faults. I decide to be who I am . Me . I am myself because I chose to be so. Not because a so called "holy" book written almost 2 millenia ago by MEN tells me to do so.
I actually disapprove of many traits in human beings I myself find personally immoral or wrong but as long as they do not hurt other people I accept that these are MY values and I have NO right enforcing MY morality on others.
I am not a judge and do not wish to be.
I forgot to say that I do not hate Christians ( those who profess a love for Christ). Indeed most people I know and have as friends are Christians ( including 2 lay vicars ) , some are even coming to my Humanist Wedding. I do not hate if I can avoid it. Hate is a destructive negative feeling.
I love many Christians as I love many Atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc... The only people I truly dislike and yes even sometimes hate are those who profess to follow a religion and peace, of love and understanding, empathy and kindess and are anything but.
I HATE hypocrisy, violence ( whether of thoughts or body including my own) ,intolerance, hypocrisy, bigotry, narrow minded people, judgemental holier than though types and I have a true aversion to those unable to think for themselves and try to even comprehend how the "other" thinks.
I have a deep affection for many people on this forum and wow, some of them are even Christians. I will not tolerate anyone Christian or otherwise for example to badmouth MissBlue. And she is as Christian as they come. I have a deep respect for her, her beliefs and could never hate her God because though I do not believe he exists I believe her God ( ie to me her beliefs in him) is one which has shaped her for the best.
Beliefs can be a source of light and goodness, they can also be a force of darkness and hatred. I respect the former and repudiate the latter. I cannot hate god because he/she does not exist but the beliefs of the people who profess faith, I am prefectly able to hate. Big difference.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
