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Jesus said: Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone graven by art and man’s device
What I believe He is saying is that He doesn't want people to put more emphasis on things. Don't get wrapped up in your beautiful jewlery and money...because that could easily become more important than Him. Nothing we have should come before God in our lives. I believe that is the purpose of the quote.
What I believe He is saying is that He doesn't want people to put more emphasis on things. Don't get wrapped up in your beautiful jewlery and money...because that could easily become more important than Him. Nothing we have should come before God in our lives. I believe that is the purpose of the quote.
dang it then I pulled the wrong quote oh shoot about graven image and such oh poo I am at a loss now someone help me here
dang it then I pulled the wrong quote oh shoot about graven image and such oh poo I am at a loss now someone help me here
so are you also saying "You shall have no graven images?" Go to www.biblegateway.com and you can put in keyword searches to find the Bible reference you're looking for. Excellent resource!
yes about we cannot make statues of him because we don't know what he looks like and it can be misenterpreted as worshipping false gods
Violation of the Second Commandment takes two general forms; first, the worship of false gods by means of religious statues or pictures, and second, the worship of the True God by means of religious statues or pictures.
yes about we cannot make statues of him because we don't know what he looks like and it can be misenterpreted as worshipping false gods
Violation of the Second Commandment takes two general forms; first, the worship of false gods by means of religious statues or pictures, and second, the worship of the True God by means of religious statues or pictures.
Oh geez I'd better take down my bobble head Jesus from my car dashboard now!
Secular authorities on Jesus excerpted from Evidence for Christianity by Josh McDowell:
Josh McDowell is not 'secular'. He is a bible apologist.
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1. Cornelius Tacitus (I realize the OP already believes this history to be false.) He was a Roman historian and alludes to the death of Christ and existence of Christians as Rome.
Tacitus has already been covered in earlier posts and..........it's 80 years after the alleged events. Stories and Hearsay!
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2. Lucian of Samosata -- A Greek satirist who did not believe in the diety of Christ, but spoke of him and Christians in a rather demeaning way -- "misguided creatures" ...."from the moment they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws."
Nearly one-and-a-half CENTURIES after the alleged events, Lucian satirised Christians, but this was several generations later, Lucian does NOT even mention Jesus or Christ by name. So, Lucian is no evidence for a historical Jesus, merely late 2nd century lampooning of Christians
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3. Suetonius -- Roman historian, court official under Hadrian, wrote Life of Claudius...referred to Jews making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [another spelling of Christus], he (Claudius) expelled them from Rome." ....This same even is referred to by Luke in Acts 18.2.
Roughly 80-90 years after the alleged Gospel events, Suetonius refers to a "Chrestus" who stirred the Jews to trouble in Rome during Claudius' time, but this "Chrestus" is a Greek name (from "useful"), and is also a mystic name for an initiate, it is not the same as "Christos" This Chrestus was apparently active in Rome, JC never was. So, this passage is not evidence for Jesus, it's nothing to do with Jesus, it's evidence for Christians grasping at straws.
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4. Pliny the Younger -- Governor of Bithynia -- sought counsel from the emperor Trajan as to how to treat Christians since he'd been killing so many men, women, boys and girls, he wanted to know if he should continue killing so many or just certain ones.
About 80 years after the alleged events, Pliny referred to Christians who worshipped a "Christ" as a god, but there is no reference to a historical Jesus or Gospel events. So, Pliny is not evidence for a historical JC, just evidence for 2nd century Christians who worshipped a Christ.
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5. Thallus -- wrote a history of the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to his own time, probably around AD 52. Refers to darkness at the time of Jesus' crucifixion.
We have NO certain evidence when Thallus lived or wrote, there are NONE of Thallus' works extant. What we DO have is a 9th century reference by George Syncellus who quotes the 3rd century Julianus Africanus, who, speaking of the darkness at the crucifixion, wrote: "Thallus calls this darkness an eclipse". But, there is NO evidence Thallus made specific reference to Jesus or the Gospel events at all, as there WAS an eclipse in 29. This suggests he merely referred to a known eclipse, but that LATER Christians MIS-interpreted his comment to mean their darkness.
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6. Phlegon...confirmed darkness came upon the earth at the time of Jesus' crucifixion.
Phlegon wrote during the 140s - his works are lost. Later, Origen, Eusebius, and Julianus Africanus (as quoted by George Syncellus) refer to him, but quote differently his reference to an eclipse. There is no evidence Phlegon actually said anything about Gospel events, he was merely talking about an eclipse (they DO happen) which LATER Christians argued was the "darkness" in their stories. So, Phlegon is no evidence for Jesus at all - merely evidence for Christian wishful thinking.
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7. Mara Bar-Serapion, a Syrian, wrote a letter from prison to his son mentioning the Jews' King who they executed, along with mentioning Socrates and Pythagoras.
A fragment of this 'letter' includes -
"... What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King?", It is NOT at all clear WHEN this manuscript was written, nor exactly who it is referring too, but there is no evidence it is JC.
........and before the other old Christian stalwarts of Ignatius, Galen, Valentinus, Polycarp and the Talmud are wheeled out.....they are all written too long after the alleged events. Stories and Hearsay!
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There are Jewish references (See: He walked among us: Evidence for the Historial Jesus. - Josh McDowell)
As I said, McDowell is a bible apologist.
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And of course we have the Bible and among those authors were eyewitnesses to his life and death and resurrection!
It is very unlikely that the Gospels are eye witness accounts. All Gospels are anonymous and were given the present names by Ireneus of Lyon in the mid 2nd century CE. The gospels were unknown, even to Christians, until the mid-second century. The the earliest gospel, that asscribed to Mark, is dated to c70CE which means that if Mark was the same age as JC, he would have been in his 70's when he wrote it. Possible yes but unlikely, as the average life expectency for those days was about 30 years. The last gospel, that of John, would mean that for John to have been an 'eye-witness, he would have to have written his gospel when he was about 110 years old.
Plav I know you don't understand why there is no visual evidence but this is a good analogy I found
The true God is not a picture, the true God is not a statue, and as the Scriptures plainly state, by God's own Word, the true God is not to be worshiped or prayed to by the use of statues or pictures. It is a blasphemous insult to Almighty God to portray Him in such a lowly and grossly-inaccurate way!
Imagine, if when someone wanted to talk to you,
they made themselves a hollow, lifeless plaster doll, that they said represented you,
brought it into your presence and instead of talking to you directly, they talked to the lifeless plaster doll, as if it were you,
all the while ignoring the real you who was right there with them.
Would you think someone who did that was very foolish?
Would you be offended by someone who "sees you" as a plaster dummy?
And if, after your telling them that you don't like them doing that, and emphatically telling them not to do it, they kept doing it anyway, would you become angry with them?
By His own words, it makes God very angry too.
You aren't a dummy (unless, after you've read this, you keep any religious statues or images that you happen to have), and God isn't a dummy either.
Plav I know you don't understand why there is no visual evidence but this is a good analogy I found
The true God is not a picture, the true God is not a statue, and as the Scriptures plainly state, by God's own Word, the true God is not to be worshiped or prayed to by the use of statues or pictures. It is a blasphemous insult to Almighty God to portray Him in such a lowly and grossly-inaccurate way!
Imagine, if when someone wanted to talk to you,
they made themselves a hollow, lifeless plaster doll, that they said represented you,
brought it into your presence and instead of talking to you directly, they talked to the lifeless plaster doll, as if it were you,
all the while ignoring the real you who was right there with them.
Would you think someone who did that was very foolish?
Would you be offended by someone who "sees you" as a plaster dummy?
And if, after your telling them that you don't like them doing that, and emphatically telling them not to do it, they kept doing it anyway, would you become angry with them?
By His own words, it makes God very angry too.
You aren't a dummy (unless, after you've read this, you keep any religious statues or images that you happen to have), and God isn't a dummy either.
I think you are missing the point here! We are talking about someone who (allegedly) walked on water, raised people from the dead, fed thousands with hardly any food and performed countless other 'miracles'. Now don't you think that such a persons fame would have spread like wildfire? Yet nobody but nobody wrote about it within his lifetime. What about the time when he was supposed to have ridden into Jerusalem on a donkey (or even TWO donkeys, depending on which version of the bible you read) and the whole city came out to greet him, yet nobody at the time seemed to have thought such an event was important enough to be recorded! Jerusalem at the time was an important seat of learing and there were many scholars there who wrote about far less importants events.
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