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History tells us that given the chance, they will force their faith on us.
"They"?
Everyone forces their ideas on everyone. Willingly or unwillingly. Whether it has to do with religion or politics or nutrition or relationship...Nothing revolutionary here.
"They"?
Everyone forces their ideas on everyone. Willingly or unwillingly. Whether it has to do with religion or politics or nutrition or relationship...Nothing revolutionary here.
"They"?
Everyone forces their ideas on everyone. Willingly or unwillingly. Whether it has to do with religion or politics or nutrition or relationship...Nothing revolutionary here.
You may need to find some new friends...I have never experienced anything like that.
They find certain beliefs wrong, bordering on evil. You find their beliefs similar to those of people you obviously think are evil, or at least wrong. Or at least I assumed that's what the cheap shot about comparing them to the atrocities in the Chinese Revolution meant.
Perhaps that was unwise, but the point was not that s/he's really akin to Mao. The point was that the level of derogation and denigration s/he's engaging in is on that spectrum. Calling a religion or creed "deluded and in some cases evil" is a serious charge. It's also worrisome when it's done in a blanket fashion as s/he does. Gplex didn't merely say "The Christian Scientists" or whatever.
I think you want to win points, but I'm sorry you can't win points on me that easily. I'm pretty sure I never said anything about atheism in general in referring to Gplex in particular. And if I did I was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex
How can thinking a belief is irrational, delusional, evil or horrible be dehumanizing someone? You have it stuck in your head that beliefs = humanity and I want to know why.
If I said your view of logic is deluded and containing great evil how is that not demeaning you?
You have this idea stuck in your head that beliefs have nothing to do with people and that how we view a person's belief has no impact on how we treat them. I guess I also want to know why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex
History tells us that given the chance, they will force their faith on us.
Paranoia, charming. Many many denominations have not forced anything. Even the anti-medicine religion of Christian Science that you, en passant, criticized has never created a state that mandated Christian Science. Many religions have avoided political involvement altogether.
My religion has forced things at times, but even then forced baptism or conversion were officially forbidden going back to early Augustine. The current Church teaching leans against strong-arm proselytizing and some say any proselytizing is forbidden of Catholics. In that view we can "spread the good news" but we're not to denigrate others or pressure anyone to convert.
Last edited by Thomas R.; 10-22-2009 at 10:11 PM..
You may need to find some new friends...I have never experienced anything like that.
You just unwillingly tried to enforce the idea that I have judgemental friends.
That's what I'm talking about. Common sense.
Anyway, I took offense in what Gplex said. His "they" obviously meant "Christians, or religious people" and I meant to say that it's an issue across the board.
Last edited by max's mama; 10-22-2009 at 11:01 PM..
You just unwillingly tried to enforce the idea that I have judgemental friends.
That's what I'm talking about. Common sense.
I did no such thing...It was only a suggestion. It was you that said everyone tries to force their ideas on others, not me. Perhaps you have a different definition of the word "force" than I do...If someone actually did try to force their ideas on me I simply wouldn't allow it.
If I said your view of logic is deluded and containing great evil how is that not demeaning you?
You have this idea stuck in your head that beliefs have nothing to do with people and that how we view a person's belief has no impact on how we treat them. I guess I also want to know why.
Paranoia, charming. Many many denominations have not forced anything. Even the anti-medicine religion of Christian Science that you, en passant, criticized has never created a state that mandated Christian Science. Many religions have avoided political involvement altogether.
My religion has forced things at times, but even then forced baptism or conversion were officially forbidden going back to early Augustine. The current Church teaching leans against strong-arm proselytizing and some say any proselytizing is forbidden of Catholics. In that view we can "spread the good news" but we're not to denigrate others or pressure anyone to convert.
No it wouldn't. But I would want you to justify it, or be ignored.
Because a belief is only a belief, nothing more. I want to know your reasoning why beliefs should be respected as much as humans?
You mean how the church use to hold the position that pain medication used while in labor is evil. Because men are suppose to toil in the fields, and women are suppose to have painful child birth..
Today you only have too look at how religious beliefs have prevented the use of stem cells.
I don't see how you can not look at views like blowing up trains, flying planes into buildings, telling people the condoms are evil, believing praying will save your daughter instead of taking her to the hospital isn't evil. I can not sit back and pretend it is not. Anyone who believes I should respect these beliefs are evil. That is my belief - are you not going to "respect" it? This is a slippery slope you want to walk down, and I suggest you think about it instead of having a knee jerk reaction.
Anyway, I took offense in what Gplex said. His "they" obviously meant "Christians, or religious people" and I meant to say that it's an issue across the board.
No, don't put words in mouth. If you didn't understand that I used the word "they", to describe everyone that I have heard articulate their beliefs, that I thought where evil, then you should have ask, "what do you mean by they", instead of rehearse your own prejudices.
Beliefs are part or not part of a greater social ball game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex
I've had a few people, 1 in particularly who keeps claiming that I should respect every belief.
Why? Tell me why I should respect beliefs I find horrible and/or evil?
Makes sense; what passes as Belief is not always the valuable Note on good shared or socially active believing.
Is Belief proven physically (by physical movements of the Body) to not Be Part of the honestly meaningful belief system of the learned formal ettiquette? Or is Belief proven by the indoctrinated lesson for what one wants to express? Thus it is a sports actvivty for the tolerance of good human behaviour. That is good to; but the physical proof for it is lacking. Beliefs should be respected for personal reasoning of the wise man in one.
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Beliefs are part or not part of a greater social ball game.
