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sheesh. You really haven't done ANY study on this have you?
Once again, Paul was talking about Roman Christian gentiles (they weren't actually called Christians at that time) who had turned away from God and reverted back to worshipping their old pagan fertility gods. If you'd spent some time reading the whole letter and researching first century Roman pagan religious practices, instead of reading isolated english translations out of context on your favourite anti-gay websites, you'd know that these practices involved ritual sex orgies in pagan temples where everyone would have wild sex with everyone else (opposite gender or same gender) in honour of the fertility gods. Paul also references the idols they made.
Just because a bunch of ex-christian gentiles went back to their old gods and got involved in ritual sex orgies in pagan temples, and made statues of their gods, does NOT make them homosexuals.
I have read it a number of times. Just because you insist that someone has not read it, really does not make it true.
Was stealing also a part of these rituals? How about being greedy? How about slandering? How about swindling? How about drinking? All these things are listed together with homosexual acts, sexual immorality and idolatry, so if you link one sin to the 'ritual', then why not all? There is nothing to suggest that homosexuality alone is linked to idolatry and the rest are thrown in for some other reason.
Many of the OT laws like eating shellfish were abolished, but the NT makes clear that many others were not. The NT mentions them by name to make it clear, yet people find creative ways to make sound like they are not sins. Paul lists some of them in this very passage: greed, swindling, drunkendness, slandering, adultery, stealing, sexual immorality and homosexuality were still condemned. Ironically in the very same passage he says "do not be deceived", yet today we have many pro-gay people trying to find creative translations to do exactly that: to deceive.
Jay, it is obvious we are dealing with a homophobe here and presenting facts will not change his mind. He probably thinks I am "teh ebul ghey" even though I am straight and married 24 years with two kids 1st and only marriage and all that good stuff.
No, we could talk about any sin. If someone came up with a creative translation to say that stealing is not really a sin either, I would engage in the discussion. If there is a phobia, it is against all sin, not just one particular one. This thread just happens to be about one particular sin, and that is the only reason we are talking about it now.
No, we could talk about any sin. If someone came up with a creative translation to say that stealing is not really a sin either, I would engage in the discussion. If there is a phobia, it is against all sin, not just one particular one. This thread just happens to be about one particular sin, and that is the only reason we are talking about it now.
What we expect is consistency, want to condemn the gays, fine, now use the the same scrips and go stone some phat folk, you can start with John Haggee and his son and stake out the seafood restaurants, nail them buggers that have just had their fill of crayfish, and don't forget to take the misguided rebellious youth outside the city walls and stone them to death, let us know how the inside of a 2m x 2m cell feels, k, thanx
Only taking your bible as literal as you are doing BTW.
Many of the OT laws like eating shellfish were abolished, but the NT makes clear that many others were not.
Really? I have read the NT many times and preached on it more times than I can remember, I don't recall a passage anywhere that says this from the OT applies, but this doesn't.
Jay, it is obvious we are dealing with a homophobe here and presenting facts will not change his mind. He probably thinks I am "teh ebul ghey" even though I am straight and married 24 years with two kids 1st and only marriage and all that good stuff.
I suppose we can leave these woo woos to their self proclaimed righteousness and bigotry, their ilk and days are numbered, time marches on and mankind progresses, albeit slowly in the USA, from the dark ages.
I have to agree with you. When someone is this vehement in their condemnation and rigorous spewing of doctrine ignoring the context the whole time, then usually it is a homophobe or someone who is actually gay and is terrified of coming out.
Really? I have read the NT many times and preached on it more times than I can remember, I don't recall a passage anywhere that says this from the OT applies, but this doesn't.
Yes, it does and I just showed you where. Murder, theft, sexual immorality etc, etc are condemned in both testaments.
I have to agree with you. When someone is this vehement in their condemnation and rigorous spewing of doctrine ignoring the context the whole time, then usually it is a homophobe or someone who is actually gay and is terrified of coming out.
Do explain what is wrong with discussing homosexuality in a thread specifically dedicated to homosexuality ? ? ?
I asked you where in the NT we are told by Christ that the OT doesn't apply.
Hebrews 8:7-13 among other places. Read up about the second covenant.
Enjoy your lobster. I assume it will be your first.
7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said[b]:
"The time is coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah. 9It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people. 11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest. 12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."[c]
13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear
Well I certainly hope so...It can't happen soon enough for me....These ancient so called laws do nothing but cause bigotry.
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