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Storms of this magnitude, if they continue which it appears they will, have very serious long-term implications for underground infrastructure which is old, extensive, and complicated in NYC. Sea water is very damaging in and of itself to electrical wiring, machinery, foundations of buildings, subways, tunnels, etc.
Very, very scary for such a densely populated area - and the financial capital of the world.
There was no way as NY was developed, over centuries, anyone could foresee anything like this.
Stephen Schneider Guru Climatologist Guru of the 70's predicted the probable increase in storms for the NE and the vulnerability of the area because of how built up it was. Climate change happens and he said the odds were global warming but could be global cooling and regardless of the reason why climate change happens and we were creating multiple disaster zones. Just think of food production in Europe and how so much of it is just barely above sea level and what the consquences of melting glaciers and rising sea waters could be on food production there and elsewhere.
Stephen Schneider Guru Climatologist Guru of the 70's predicted the probable increase in storms for the NE and the vulnerability of the area because of how built up it was. ......we were creating multiple disaster zones.
I agree with this. We've had a lot of development in outlying areas around the perimeter of our city for a long while now. I felt in 2010 the reason for the flooding in my neighborhood was because of all the development to the west and north of us. We are in a very old suburb. My house was built in 1940, some are much older - late 1800s, early 1900s. We NEVER had flooding. Now there is a section north of me which has been flooding for the past three or four years. Thus, the deep tunnel projects.
the big difference between nyc and other areas is we have no unpaved land for perking all that water . as nyc was paved and the perking process stopped water was slow to be absorbed so all of nyc and the boroughs had to put a storm drain system in to account for the loss of unpaved land.
people dump so much garbage in them that most are blocked or dont work well.
we have pumping stations for pumping water from the tunnels but they were never designed to handle a volume of water like we got.
being the most likely city to be bombed in a soviet attack nyc was more concerned with having safe areas in basements in manhattan then in levels of flooding never ever seen before.
just the mere fact that most buildings and home are built with basements show that flooding was never an issue.
of course like all things nothing is a problem until its a problem.
the big difference between nyc and other areas is we have no unpaved land for perking all that water . as nyc was paved and the perking process stopped water was slow to be absorbed so all of nyc and the boroughs had to put a storm drain system in to account for the loss of unpaved land.
people dump so much garbage in them that most are blocked or dont work well.
we have pumping stations for pumping water from the tunnels but they were never designed to handle a volume of water like we got.
being the most likely city to be bombed in a soviet attack nyc was more concerned with having safe areas in basements in manhattan then in levels of flooding never ever seen before.
just the mere fact that most buildings and home are built with basements show that flooding was never an issue.
of course like all things nothing is a problem until its a problem.
climate change means that areas once suited for farming can cease to be and areas not use for farming can become fertile farmland. One of the things Schneider talked about was just what you mention in the NE. If climate changes and the midwest begins to dry up (where have we seen that picture?) and the NE becomes highly suited for agriculture it is hard to grow corn in concrete and tar.
Hi all--just checking in briefly. We had no damage--looks like that bad storm in June was a blessing, since all the weak branches broke and fell down back then. So we have no trees down in my neck of the woods, but we do have a significant amount of flooding. My street is fine but the parks just a few blocks away are underwater.
I walked over to get the "after" photo of the trees I shot Saturday, and couldn't even get to the same spot. I did take a few shots that show the trees in a distance and a completely flooded parking lot. Snow melt and a little bit more rain will be taking place tonight and they predict the water level should go up another 5-6 inches from that.
I'll post the shots when I get back. I'm driving up to NY to help a relative clean up. She lives in Bayville, which is right on the shore, and her house was badly flooded. Also, she's a bit shaken up and mostly wants someone to stay with her a few days. I'm look at it this way--I was lucky not to have damage, and right now I have extra time to do things like drive up there and help someone out. Maybe I'll regret it but I figure I should do that sort of thing at least once in my life. We'll see how it goes.
climate change means that areas once suited for farming can cease to be and areas not use for farming can become fertile farmland. One of the things Schneider talked about was just what you mention in the NE. If climate changes and the midwest begins to dry up (where have we seen that picture?) and the NE becomes highly suited for agriculture it is hard to grow corn in concrete and tar.
Not sure what is "NE" but there is nothing but open spaces between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia in Pennsylvania and every state has large amounts of non-urban federal, state, wild, conservation, forest inactive agriculture. That's a resource we have plenty of in the USA, land. For a hundred years Pennsylvania, Western Ohio, parts of New York were the nations bread basket. Farming is still Pennsylvania's number one industry. Much of Pennsylvania's farm land today has been replaced by woodland. Transportation of food products is the issue not production.
Not sure what is "NE" but there is nothing but open spaces between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia in Pennsylvania and every state has large amounts of non-urban federal, state, wild, conservation, forest inactive agriculture. That's a resource we have plenty of in the USA, land. For a hundred years Pennsylvania, Western Ohio, parts of New York were the nations bread basket. Farming is still Pennsylvania's number one industry. Much of Pennsylvania's farm land today has been replaced by woodland. Transportation of food products is the issue not production.
No disagreement with what you say about Pennsylvania but isn't much of it already in play? We are talking about losing some areas and replacing them with what and where to be determined by climate. Are winters the same in Pennsylvania as 30 years ago or is there more or less snow?
Hi all--just checking in briefly. We had no damage--looks like that bad storm in June was a blessing, since all the weak branches broke and fell down back then. So we have no trees down in my neck of the woods, but we do have a significant amount of flooding. My street is fine but the parks just a few blocks away are underwater.
I walked over to get the "after" photo of the trees I shot Saturday, and couldn't even get to the same spot. I did take a few shots that show the trees in a distance and a completely flooded parking lot. Snow melt and a little bit more rain will be taking place tonight and they predict the water level should go up another 5-6 inches from that.
I'll post the shots when I get back. I'm driving up to NY to help a relative clean up. She lives in Bayville, which is right on the shore, and her house was badly flooded. Also, she's a bit shaken up and mostly wants someone to stay with her a few days. I'm look at it this way--I was lucky not to have damage, and right now I have extra time to do things like drive up there and help someone out. Maybe I'll regret it but I figure I should do that sort of thing at least once in my life. We'll see how it goes.
I'll be blunt. Don't go. First - there are gas shortages along your route. You may be stranded on your way north - or when you get to Long Island. Bayville had pretty bad damage. One of the 2 roads to Bayville has apparently been destroyed. Most houses in Bayville don't have power. And likely won't have it soon. A house that has been flooded is no place to stay. Things start to rot soon. And they stink. It isn't healthy. Not to mention that when power is restored in the area - parts of the house's electrical system may have been damaged to such an extent that turning on power in the house might be extremely dangerous (you can start a fire or get electrocuted). Note that I am assuming that you plan to stay in the relative's house. If you're staying elsewhere in a place with power - that's a different story.
I don't know the status of things on Long Island. If the water is down - and it's at all possible - your relative should get a contractor ASAP to evaluate the condition of the house. Whether it can be saved. And - if so - what can be done to save it (and what has to be done now to prevent further damage). Also - did the relative have federal flood insurance? If so - she should start taking pictures - and putting her claim in order. Anyway - your relative should do what she can do to "get her house in order". And then - when she has done all she can do - she should come and stay with you (or - preferably - stay with someone who lives closer to her).
BTW - I am assuming you're just a normal person like I am - and don't have any degree of expertise in construction or dealing with flood damaged structures. If you do have these special skills - then perhaps you might be able to help. Robyn
These disasters, like the NEng hurricane of '38, used to be isolated incidents with many years in between. It now remains to be seen, with the oceans warming and the glaciers melting, whether these kinds of disaster storms get more frequent, something we have to live with on a regular basis. Bill McKibben the environmentalist believes this to be the case. One thing that seems apparent, after the microburst tornadoes and storms here these past few years (flattening some streets and leaving others in the same and nearby blocks intact), and the eery nature of Sandy (NJ/NY residents say there was so much devastation despite no outrageously high winds or rain) is that we may be subjected to irrational "pockets" of unpredictable forces from now on.
I have a much more pragmatic view of things - because - living in Florida - I'm kind of a "storm junkie" (I get my "fixes" on line ). Remember 2004-05 - when we had all those storms in Florida? One after another after another (2 hit within about 2 miles of each other)? The steering currents aimed most of the storms at us. The last few years - the steering currents changed. Storms aimed at us curved to the north. And most went out to sea. Years like this are very happy ones for those of us who live in Florida . A few - like Sandy - faced other weather fronts that prevented them from going out to sea when they were up north. But this too shall pass - and one year the steering currents will start directing storms at Florida again.
FWIW - I grew up on Long Island - and remember having "school holidays" due to hurricanes in the 1950's. I also lived through Agnes in 1972 in Philadelphia (when we got flooded out). So none of this is new. People just forget (or don't do their homework).
As far as Sandy goes - the areas that got hit the worst by flooding were those at the shore. That's a big "duh". There was some flash flooding as a result of rain too. And - although the winds weren't bad (at least by Florida standards) - people up north seem to be allergic to keeping trees away from power lines and houses and/or thinning tree canopies. Which is a recipe for disaster if there's heavy rain combined with some wind. Note that a lot of people here in NE Florida have the same allergy. So areas with above ground power lines often have power outages when there's heavy rain and some wind. Robyn
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Fram Land
). Remember 2004-05 - when we had all those storms in Florida? One after another after another (2 hit within about 2 miles of each other)? The steering currents aimed most of the storms at us. The last few years - the steering currents changed. Storms aimed at us curved to the north. And most went out to sea. Years like this are very happy ones for those of us who live in Florida 
. A few - like Sandy - faced other weather fronts that prevented them from going out to sea when they were up north. But this too shall pass - and one year the steering currents will start directing storms at Florida again.
