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As far as Sandy goes - the areas that got hit the worst by flooding were those at the shore. That's a big "duh". Robyn
THIS time. Not only coastal areas flood during catastrophic storms. Irene did a huge number on Vermont, the flooding was very bad there and Vermont is nowhere near the coast. Whole towns were flooded. It's all a matter of too much rain and the criks rise.
The 3-4 feet, or higher, of standing water in NYC - subway tunnels and elsewhere - is mind-boggling.
I continue to be seriously concerned about long-term damage to the stability of the very old, very extensive, very labrynthian underground infrastructure in NYC.
Six million still without power
LaGuardia is still under water.
Bridges are closed. Bloomberg has said those few which can be used are limited to cars with at least three occupants unless traveling before 6 a.m.
Most trains not running and won't be for an indefinite period.
There is no power on Wall Street right now. The NYSE is running on generator.
One real estate guy was on CNBC a hour ago, saying he might get power back in his buildings in a couple of weeks, once they get through dealing with the water damage.
I call this a calamity, consequences of which we don't yet know.
...I've lived "up north" all my life. We have basements up here. Heating plants, power boxes, rec rooms, extra living quarters are in the basements. No one up here carries flood insurance unless they live in a flood plain. We don't have tropical storms, hurricanes, typhoons or anything of that nature up here - until about two years ago - when we had our second 100-year flood in the space of a few years...
I grew up "up north". So did my husband. We lived in houses with basements that would have flooded quite often had the houses not had "sump pumps". Needing a "sump pump" under relatively normal circumstances is a pretty good clue you shouldn't have a basement and/or you should buy flood insurance. Also - the houses we grew up in were split level ranches where the toilets in the "rec rooms" - which were always at ground level or perhaps a little lower - always backed up and couldn't be used during decent rain storms.
My grandparents used to live in the Rockaways about 2 blocks from the ocean. And even they had a basement (where my mother lived during WWII when my father was overseas).
So perhaps people up north have always built and lived in a state of denial. Ignoring the water that is all around them. Putting furniture and rugs and big screen TVs in basements with sump pumps. Living in basement apartments.
Also - they cut corners. Richard LeFrak (a big NY developer) was on CNBC today. And he said the FEMA flood line in certain near water parts of New York was 11 feet above sea level (to qualify for federal flood insurance). Note that that line is only about 6 feet above sea level here where I live in Florida. And - in Florida - we interpret the FEMA line to mean that nothing important should be less than 11 feet above sea level. Indeed - if we have just about anything under the FEMA line - FEMA won't insure it. But NYU Hospital had generators below this line. Luxury condos had lobbies below this line. And - apparently - it never occurred to anyone building a hugely expensive high rise building to build more than 11 feet high (low end tract home developers do that where I live - build to minimum standards - but we're not talking about $3/$30 million condos here). I know real estate up north in many places is very expensive. And building is very expensive too. But cheap is cheap when it comes to construction. Robyn
THIS time. Not only coastal areas flood during catastrophic storms. Irene did a huge number on Vermont, the flooding was very bad there and Vermont is nowhere near the coast. Whole towns were flooded. It's all a matter of too much rain and the criks rise.
Agreed about Irene. We have "criks" like that where I live. Every time we get a big rain - they flood. I think FEMA should stop paying multiple flood claims for places in these areas. Also - FEMA should never ever pay to do things like raise houses that are built too low (we're having a couple of big fights here about that - FEMA spending $500k to "remediate" houses that are worth $300k). Also - I think taxpayers should stop subsidizing federal flood insurance. Might have seemed like a good idea at the time - but all it did IMO was encourage too much construction in flood prone areas. And the federal flood insurance program is pretty much broke now - even before Sandy. Robyn
Much of the Sandy news this morning dealt with long gasoline lines and a gas shortage in NYC. Shouldn't gasoline be one of those pre-position supplies that FEMA stages in advance of storms? If not, why not?
FEMA has nothig to do with supplying fuel to the general public after a storm. The fuel they standby with is for responders to the disaster from police;fire departments;public workers;contrators repairing things etc. Its goig to take sometime for private staions to get back i serice as mnay will require repair after being inspected plus the terminals feedig them .Alreqady pipeline are i the works to repalce local refineries shutdwon but still from pipeline to your tank passes thru alot of facilities all who have to be working;many after repair and inspection.
In New Jersey, drivers waited in two-mile-long lines to buy gasoline after the storm flooded fuel terminals, curbed deliveries and left many filling stations in the dark and unable to run pumps.
Much of the Sandy news this morning dealt with long gasoline lines and a gas shortage in NYC. Shouldn't gasoline be one of those pre-position supplies that FEMA stages in advance of storms? If not, why not?
Gasoline and water don't mix, nor does gasoline store for a long time, nor are there facilities to store it in that wouldn't have suffered the same fate as existing storage and as the link mentions stations may have gas but no electricity to run their pumps.
Much of the Sandy news this morning dealt with long gasoline lines and a gas shortage in NYC. Shouldn't gasoline be one of those pre-position supplies that FEMA stages in advance of storms? If not, why not?
First off - you overestimate what FEMA can and does do. It isn't in the gasoline delivery business. Even if someone could pre-position gasoline everywhere - it would be a very expensive and dangerous proposition. Trucks can get flooded - be blown around - etc. during a storm. Gasoline fumes can explode. Even trucks with less dangerous things - like the Home Depot and Lowe's supply trucks - pre-position outside the areas expected to be affected by storms. Then - after the storm hits - they relocate to the areas where the supplies are needed.
Also - a primary reason for the gas problems is many gas stations don't have power. So they can't pump gas. Unlike Florida (and perhaps one or two other states) - states in the NE don't require any gas stations to have generators (here - gas stations in certain places are required to be "generator ready").
Note that many people are simply hoarding. "Topping off tanks" - stuff like that. I reckon that's what mathjak was doing when he jumped into a gas line right after seeing a fuel delivery. It's the same kind of thing/mentality we saw during the gas crises in the 70's. I have looked through the New Jersey/New York boards - and people there seem to have no concept of sacrificing even a little so things can return to normal more quickly. For example - I think that unless one has an urgent need for a car in business - or to get food - home repair supplies and the like - or to deliver relief supplies/help - etc. - well people who don't have to be on the roads should just stay home and stay away from gas stations. When we were able to move back into our place 3 weeks after Hurricane Andrew (very early in our neck of the woods because our building was on the same power grid as a hospital) - most of our area gas stations were still closed (no power). So we stayed home - and - when we left home (mostly just to get outside) - we rode our bikes. The only time we used our cars was to deliver relief supplies to friends who needed help.* Another member here - Caladium - is driving from Virginia to Long Island (about 400 miles) to "hold the hand" of a relative (who is probably not her elderly mother). Now if Caladium was a contractor who was heading up north to deal with post-hurricane repairs - that would be one thing. But she isn't. She will be just another non-essential person on the roads waiting on line in NJ/NY for gas.
Finally - I have particular contempt for people who drive to storm-affected areas just to gawk and take pictures. Not only are they wasting gas - but they're clogging the roads - and sometimes preventing homeowners and essential workers from doing their jobs. Robyn
*We did other things after Andrew until things got back to somewhat normal. My husband drove a friend of ours and some of his friends (who had come down from another state) to help people in our friends' former church in Homestead. Our friend and his friends had lots of tools - including chain saws - and lots of post-storm skills. My husband had no such skills. But he had a pick-up truck (which could be used to transport people/stuff) and the time and money to shop for relief supplies (like food). I concentrated on relief supplies to our stranded friends who lived 10 miles south of us. I didn't have a particularly fuel efficient car (by today's standards) - but it had about a 400 mile range (big gas tank). So I was able to go about 2-3 weeks without refueling.
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Gasoline
