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It takes the passage of some decades, before we come to recognize the importance of recent inventions and social transformations. It seems to me that it was only in the 1990s that we came to appreciate, for example, the pivotal events of the 1970s… computers and telecommunications, women entering the workforce, manufacturing aggregating in Asia and so forth. So, had we been having this discussion say in 1985, it would have been easy to assert that nothing particularly transformative had happened since 1970.
That said, I do agree that innovation has in recent decades… slowed down. We have been consolidating and absorbing so many late-20th century technologies and societal shifts. But as an engineer, I'm befuddled and disappointed, that so many of the truly meaty problems of the mid and late 20th century remain unsolved. Stable nuclear fusion? Wasn't it promised to us in 1960, that we'd have it by 1980? Hypersonic or even supersonic commercial aviation? We don't even fly the Concorde anymore. We had our first acute energy-crisis in 1973. Well, what percentage of total energy-consumption in 2016 is met through alternative energy? We started hearing rumors of artificial intelligence probably 60 years ago. My computer can crush me in a chess-game, but where's my personal-computer or personal-robot with genuine feelings, creativity and imagination? We've been sending missions to Mars in the movies for 50 years. When are we actually going to send a real mission?
I would argue that were there not to have been rampant controversy on the subject, there would not be the frenzy of research-activity and grant-money. If there is unanimous agreement, there's no impetus for further publication. Controversy and strife are needed to justify activity in the field.
The golden-age for America wasn't one of probity or moral rectitude, but of outsized economic vitality available to the working-classes. This was, I think, a historical anomaly. Its passing is not the result of stupid policy or feckless leadership or rotten values, but of demographic and economic realities quite beyond any one nation's capacity to rectify. Taking the very long view – that of multiple centuries – I think that the rise of so-called Third World is inevitable. Why should a manual laborer in America or Germany or Australia enjoy a higher standard of living than his counterpart in India or China? 1000 years ago, the juxtaposition would have been entirely the reverse. In Byzantium, in Benares, in Peking – scholars debated the nature of ultimate reality. They had clean potable water (more or less), instruments for telling time, laws on property and so forth. In Europe, people ran at each other with lances and spears on horseback. Literacy was restricted to the priesthood.
What is so special, inevitable or permanent about the rise of the West? Why would it be abhorrent or perverse, to find in that in the year 2400, the real advances and the pinnacle of material-life and personal-liberty would be in Asia, and not in Europe or North America?
I can add nothing to this. I completely agree regarding the slow down in innovation. In ways, we are going backwards. For example, UIs. They are being dumbed down for the phones.
I am "only" 63 and a political moderate, but I just feel that the world for at least the past 15 years is not something I want to be part of. I cannot think of anything new that has happened in the world since about 1999 that I either enjoy or approve of. ....Now, however, it seems to me that the modern world is just mostly ugly and/or unpleasant; and it just makes me want to isolate myself in my home and become a complete recluse. Does anyone else feel that way?
A juicy topic. But for me, now age seventy-eight, it was probably more so in the Nineties. I felt a lot of discontent during that decade, which had been building since the Eighties. At age sixty-one I made huge dare-devil leap that gave me the opportunity to have a lot of new exciting things in the forefront of my life and for those things I found disturbing and undesirable to be eliminated or ignored for the most part.
It has been close to eighteen years now, and I feel fine about life...not that mythical phantasm called Life, but life as I experience it, live it.
I certainly have many health problems....and I still find even more in politics, religion, technology, etc. dangerous, dubious or simply annoying. My health is obviously a personally lived thing. But I have reached the point where I feel no compulsion to care about the latter things.
From the mid-Eighties to the early Nineties I decided to volunteer working with seriously ill people, sometimes hands-on, only one survived. During that same time how I thought and felt about the world, and my life in the world underwent a rather radical change. Then I had a serious accident, which provided six years to mull over those experiences and thoughts. And when physically capable again but unemployable, I knew to make my leap. And did.
I see the world of the OP when I read threads on C-D, but that involvement is by choice as are who and what I read and I do not live in it, it can be turned off. I see very little TV/internet news, no point really.
I am in the position of being able to edit what enters/intrudes into my life to a great degree. My focus is quite parochial. I shrunk my life, on purpose. This has made it not only more pleasant, but useful, where given other choices I think it would have been psychologically and financially strained and drained to lesser good effect.
I live in a pleasant neighborhood and my some of my neighbors are very warm and kind to me, indeed. I have a small number of other friends outside the neighborhood. I have mobility problems, but I live pretty modestly which allows me to have made, and make, regular contributions to a relatively new day care center - and now residence - for severely physically and mentally disabled children, and now adults whose parents can no longer care for them. The first and only one in this part of the country. And also to one of the first hospice services in our district. And to a meditation center as well. And I feel that I am a considerate and concerned neighbor, I do believe that being a good neighbor and friend has to be something you do. I spend as much time in the natural world of our meadows, cliffs, seashore and hills as I can.
Back to the OP: " Does anyone else feel that way?"
Absolutely yes, in many respects, if I allowed myself to have these concerns as my mental furniture. But I was motivated to disengage from that and circumstances then gave me a big kick in the butt, which made it really possible I thought. And I did, and, thus, the answer is, "No."
(The question was asked in what I took to be a rather yes-or-no fashion, and I have responded to it with an entirely personal answer. My ability to say "no" at this point, is not presented as a recipe. I have put myself in the position not to have to entertain many of the considerations and topics that other people clearly feel a need to address, and in a different fashion.)
I truly do appreciate all the thoughtful replies on this thread. However, one thing that has not been brought out (unless I missed it) are the dangers associated with the new technology. I am talking about computers being hacked, identify theft, and the lack of privacy now, in general.
I also hate the new technology in cars, except for the improved gas mileage. (Granted, I am personally biased about this because our car has been in the shop six times in two years because of the problems with the keyless ignition. I miss keys!) I also hate it that so many people seem to pay more attention to their phones than to what is ahead and beside them on the road when they are driving.
And, yes, in many ways, I do agree that many things are much better now than they were 50 years ago, but I still maintain that in my opinion, they have not improved in the last 15!
[Oh, and just btw, I don't watch television at all or have cable, but if one wants to know what is going on in the world and not just put one's head in the sand, it is very difficult to just ignore the bad stuff -- and, yes, I do know that war, violence, racism, injustice and other forms of cruelty have been going on for many thousands of years, probably -- but I think that it has never before been so constantly "in your face".]
Last edited by katharsis; 09-02-2016 at 03:59 PM..
I truly do appreciate all the thoughtful replies on this thread. However, one thing that has not been brought out (unless I missed it) are the dangers associated with the new technology. I am talking about computers being hacked, identify theft, and the lack of privacy now, in general.
I also hate the new technology in cars, except for the improved gas mileage. (Granted, I am personally biased about this because our car has been in the shop six times in two years because of the problems with the keyless ignition. I miss keys)!) I also hate it that so many people seem to pay more attention to their phones than to what is ahead and beside them on the road when they are driving.
And, yes, in many ways, I do agree that many things are much better now than they were 50 years ago, but I still maintain that in my opinion, they have not improved in the last 15!
[Oh, and just btw, I don't watch television at all or have cable, but if one wants to know what is going on in the world and not just put one's head in the sand, it is very difficult to just ignore the bad stuff -- and, yes, I do know that war, violence, racism injustice and other forms of cruelty have been going on for many thousands of years, probably -- but I think that it has never before been so constantly "in your face".]
And to the bold text I add this comment. For the first time since 1945, serious, potentially escalating, war, is at the margins of the NATO zone. Russia has invaded Ukraine and threatened the rest of Europe with nuclear destruction. This is not the same old "stuff," different day. We have turned an invisible corner into a dark and dangerous alley.
I don't drive much anymore, drove for many years for pleasure and work and don't enjoy sitting in traffic. SO I have a 1995 auto, second owner, with about 47K miles on it. Not very computerized at all and it works like a gem. I'd love to give it up, but need to do my errands etc. around town.
The more bells and whistles, the more that can go wrong and more expenses.
On the total computer stuff, if and when, everything goes out, we'll just deal with it. I pay all but one monthly bill online and monitor my checking acct. So I'll not worry about it. We'll all be in the same boat if the grid ever does what I hear it could do.
Never played a video game and haven't missed a thing.
Last edited by jaminhealth; 09-02-2016 at 04:14 PM..
I love that! Getting a check used to mean a trip to my credit union. Now, I take a picture of the front and back and I'm done. So much easier.
And so much easier for someone who's not you to remove it, steal your identity or just plane skim your debit card and take it.
Used to be you had to go to a bank and either they knew you or you had to prove who you were. Bank fraud was a whole lot less back then.
I (obviously) don't hate technology ( a network engineer plus I'm here right?) BUT I am concerned about how technology has removed so much personal contact,conversation and probably critical thinking of our young. Let me add to the last by saying yes, they have a whole library at their fingertips BUT frequently they believe everything that's printed on the 'net instead of processing what they see and using their own brains to dissect it.
They're perfectly fine with coming no closer to someone than a keyboard or for many, not interacting with a real person at all, just a computer generated (game) version of one.
That is what I think is going to bite us in the butt down the road. Even as someone who was deeply involved in tech I hate texting, I don't like spending hours on the phone, I don't video chat, I much prefer a face to face conversation so I have at least a shot at gauging emotion/facial cues etc.
I don't play video games either, Doom (1st edition way back when) was the last one I've played and it wasn't for long.
And so much easier for someone who's not you to remove it, steal your identity or just plane skim your debit card and take it.
Used to be you had to go to a bank and either they knew you or you had to prove who you were. Bank fraud was a whole lot less back then.
I (obviously) don't hate technology ( a network engineer plus I'm here right?) BUT I am concerned about how technology has removed so much personal contact,conversation and probably critical thinking of our young.
They're perfectly fine with coming no closer to someone than a keyboard or for many, not interacting with a real person at all, just a computer generated (game) version of one.
That is what I think is going to bite us in the butt down the road. Even as someone who was deeply involved in tech I hate texting, I don't like spending hours on the phone, I don't video chat, I much prefer a face to face conversation so I have at least a shot at gauging emotion/facial cues etc.
I don't play video games either, Doom (1st edition way back when) was the last one I've played and it wasn't for long.
And of course the push to get everyone onto the phones or at a minimum, on line, is not really about so called convenience, like they say in all the sales pitches. It's about being able to fire untold numbers of workers whose jobs are (or were) in brick and mortar business locations. Service levels now pathetic, theft going through the roof, and now, the use of mass hacking / cyber attacks has become a type of munition carried out by powers hostile to our own.
........
And, yes, in many ways, I do agree that many things are much better now than they were 50 years ago, but I still maintain that in my opinion, they have not improved in the last 15!
.....
I guess you have not worked in a field where technology was important. I worked in the medical laboratory field where the rate of increase in knowledge and the applications to improving health and the reductions in costs were progressing at an unbelievable rate. What we had 15 years ago looked like a Model T compared with a modern car. What changed? Everything: sensors, computer capability, software, robotics, robotics, robotics, manufacturing, biotechnology, miniaturization, but most of all knowledge of biology and diseases.
So maybe you want to discount huge advances in practically all areas of industry and business. Maybe you are only thinking of consumer products. Where should I even beginning listing the advances? I am a photographer and was in the old days of film. All of digital camera capability and editing is new within 15 years. There were basic cellphones 15 years ago. They were expensive, useable only in mainly urban areas and certainly did not have smartphone capability. Fifteen years ago there was nothing or very minimal capability for online banking, online shopping and information on the internet was quite limited. I would not be able to sit be traveling in Death Valley and use my cellphone as a hotspot connected to my computer so I could Skype my old friend in Florida. I could not use the GPS or internet to find out where to go to have my solar system repaired. In fact my RV would not have had solar capability.
Last year I was looking into solar for my house. The solar company sent up a drone which photographed the house, the sky and the trees. They were then able to analyze the possible efficiency and output. None of that existed 15 years ago.
Have you noticed your TV is digital and works a whole lot better than the analog units in use 15 years ago?
I could go on for a long time, but there is no point. Those who want to be negative will always find some wrong. If nothing else, one of the new products might have a flaw or might wear out or break. Some people just truly are in need of finding a hole to climb into and "completely retreat".
Boy, are you right. I was in a restaurant one day and at another table there were 4 people eating together. Each one was staring down at their smart phone and texting someone somewhere else, instead of actually having direct conversation with the people sitting right next to them ! In our company lunchroom, 3 or 4 people will be eating together and no one says a word to anyone else, they are all staring at that damn little screen and pushing keys on the front.
The other day I was in the check out line at Costco, and there were two little girls, probably 2 and 4, and the older one had a smart phone in her hands, doing God knows what. My first thoughts were "They sure start young, don't they ?"
No wonder people are so insensitive and unmoved when they see another human being being hurt or killed, it is just another video game to them.
Don
Interesting thread! I don't feel like retiring from the world around me but I do get tired of all the doom and gloom in the news. Watching the local news it seems like it's always about people killing other people, etc. and I get tired of seeing/hearing it. The "local news" comes from the 'big city' though and we don't have even a fraction of it here but still.... As for all the advances in technology, I can live with or without them. Except for my computer! lol
As for what you wrote...I see this every.single.day, all day long. I go on break at work and everyone has their nose in their phones. Sometimes there will be people to talk to but not often. People in the store on their phones the whole time. They come to my register, still on their phone, but I don't really care about that. To me it just means I don't have to interact with them and can just do my job. It's okay with me and even a relief at times. I DO thank them at the end when I give them their receipt and they'll say "Thanks" too but that's it. And, yes, the kids DO start young. The baby and toy dept. has their own style of 'cell phone' and other electronics for babies. Amazing.
I don't know if I'm becoming "insensitive and unmoved" by all the violence I see being reported but I admit to having a feeling of "So what else is new?". Not much shocks or surprises me anymore unless it's REALLY something heinous. I have no interest in todays movies. It's either blood and gore, zombies or 'the end of the world' stuff that I have no interest in whatsoever. Where did all that zombie stuff come from anyway???
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In our company lunchroom, 3 or 4 people will be eating together and no one says a word to anyone else, they are all staring at that damn little screen and pushing keys on the front.
